Elder dallin h oaks dating versus hanging out

Dallin h oaks dating versus hanging out

billion in cash and in-kind donations to help with relief efforts. to highlight the mistakes and gloss over the greater good is to draw a caricature. this is the man who has repeatedly claimed: "it's wrong to criticize leaders of the church, even if the criticism is true. so, that's all i know about that at this point. so many kids get into trouble because of all this ridiculous marriage and kids talk that the gas are dishing out. figured that next to jesus, gandhi must be the greatest human being to walk the planet. we not only have the gospel of jesus christ, we have jesus christ. all, thanks to your unimpressive effort at historical revisionism, that historic intimidation by the mormon church of blacks is becoming, shall we say, more well-known and more widely condemned all the time." he even refers to himself with the silly title and middle initial. he is a forthright, plain-spoken man, but elder packer is far too sophisticated and sensitive a man to call a stake president and tell him what he has to do in a church discipline case. come to think of it, there are a bunch of ways in which your own eternal temple marriage is a complete emotional sham in order to keep up appearances. this evasive approach impeded both law enforcement authorities, lds church members and the public at large in any genuine effort they were attempting to get at the truth. said that the mclellin papers held by the church had been originally purchased by a representative sent by then-president joseph f. he said this caused them to fall because when persons are “looking beyond the mark,” god takes away plainness and gives them what they sought? noise from the supremacist boys: oaks' insulting performance in twisting lds racist history wednesday, oct 14, 2009, at 07:49 am original author(s): steve benson topic: dallin h. it was promoted by the highest leaders of the state's dominant [mormon] church., if you are john taylor, lorenzo snow, wilford woodruff, george cannon, heber kimball, and on and on and on, in which case you can obtain a new wife every time your last wife gets worn out."'all things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not' (1 corinthians 10:23). not more open with its own historical documents, specifically as relating to the refusal of the church to acknowledge the existence of, or share with, law enforcement authorities the mclellin papers during the hofmann investigation."the apostle said he didn't willfully mislead a news reporter. kimball which ended the policy of discrimmination against black males. above has been a detailed and extensive account of events involving the toscano-packer-heinz-oaks affair. they should follow the marriage enrichment counsel in the first presidency’s message in the april 2007 ensign and liahona. it embraces the people who come and go across the path of our life. he has been living with that traumatic event probably for decades and oaks probably said some strong words that made this guy question his standing before god. oaks' public praise of farms with his behind-the-scenes digs at farms just a few weeks earlier."benson's letter to oaks had warned the apostle that unless he set the record straight, benson would feel under no obligation to honor the promise of confidentiality he had earlier given oaks and maxwell. is 'a mythical being thought to be able to live in fire. he refused to grant a newspaper interview but did agree to meet with me in his office.'s a classic "some things that are true are not useful. said that feeling of truthfulness came from a "personal witness."elder oaks also told me he later spoke directly with elder packer, advising him that elder packer's meeting with president heinz violated disciplinary procedure and that elder packer had no authority or responsibility in this area. in the ultimate analysis, he said, the book of mormon had to be accepted on faith. oaks--in a fresh warning to a youthfully malleable, blindly obedient, humbly assembled herd of student sheep at idaho's extension of brigham young university--sought to liken stiff opposition to the mormon church’s recent political campaign of subterfuge against equal rights for gays to the ugly racist opposition encountered by african-americans during the u.: "i was trying to do, to deal with that in having a confidential interview with him. my side, i was the oldest and only one with a job, brother was incarcerated)! but, deity must be addressed, in english, using formal speech (though he doesn't explain why all other languages should use the informal, as the church insists they do). as women's options have increased and some women have become more aggressive, some men have become reluctant to take traditional male initiatives, such as asking for dates, lest they be thought to qualify for the dreaded label "male chauvinist."may i emphasize that i came to you with no hidden agenda. likewise, in 1950 counselor clark wrote: 'race tolerance: the trend is just terrible. that the lord's anointed did not detect the forgeries but jerald tanner, one of the main anti-mormon researchers around was the one raising doubts and questions. once the element of competition has gone, pride has gone.” i thought that the gospel teaches us that we aren’t supposed to do things to “be seen of men” (matthew 6:5), to call attention to ourselves, and to “aspire to the honors of men” (d&c 121:35). same day his defensive commentary ran in "the salt lake tribune," it also appeared up in the church-owned campus newspaper, "the daily universe. it isn’t just one leader, it’s the entire mormon system. start with a variety of dates with a variety of young women, and when that phase yields a good prospect, proceed to courtship. on the one hand, i did not like to live a lie by participating in an organization i did not agree with and that i thought was corrupt. i honestly don't remember hearing anything other than a passing reference about the glorious resurrection of christ. monson (33)   · time (4)   · tithing (63)   · ugo perego (5)   · uk courts (7)   · unnanounced, uninvited and unwelcome (36)   · utah lighthouse ministry (3)   · valerie hudson (3)   · van hale (16)   · vaughn j. you chose only to correct one of the three falsehoods.) recognition of his increasingly embarrassing position, he finally concedes that, okay, "thou" might be obsolete - but that that is precisely why we should use it for "the language of prayer"! to the credit of its editor (who happened to be catholic), the paper published the letter to the editor that "student review" would not touch, along with the following "editor's note":"news stories earlier this month dealt with the resignation from the lds church of 'arizona republic' political cartoonist steve benson. oaks' conjecture concerning the real meaning of the word "salamander" certainly shows the lengths mormon apologists will go to try and explain away anything that challenges mormonism. smith (1)   · joseph fielding smith (8)   · joseph sitati (1)   · joseph smith (101)   · joseph smith - polygamy (43)   · joseph smith - prophecy (8)   · joseph smith - seer stones (7)   · joseph smith - worship (13)   · judaism (3)   · julie b. to packer as the source of these headaches, a frustrated oaks told me, "you can't stage manage a grizzly bear. lds church has now just proclaimed that their religious freedom is now under attack because they were successful in denying civil rights to a minority group? i simply cannot expose him to the hurt of my family. elder oaks basically suggested that people should stop their complaining and realize that the church serves up eternal blessings. perfection is a journey—my husband is still working on me about that!'s just so obvious how much it's a practised technique, all the techniques you pick up in cheesy business seminars that teach you how to 'win friends and influence people'. i was surprised to see them there on a sunday, as he is very tbm and used to work at the cob [church office building] before he retired. men sustained as prophets, seers and revelators and none of them saw marriage equality coming as an issue just a decade or so in advance? you said that president heinz was 'an old seminary man' and friend of elder packer during their days together in the church seminary system and that president heinz 'called and asked for a meeting' with elder packer. single young friends, we counsel you to channel your associations with the opposite sex into dating patterns that have the potential to mature into marriage, not hanging-out patterns that only have the prospect to mature into team sports like touch football. surely, the word ‘burning’ in this scripture signifies a feeling of comfort and serenity” (ensign,mar. however, what you said in public varies significantly from the facts as you laid them out to me. kimball: "the first presidency has interpreted oral sex as constituting an unnatural, impure, or unholy practice"). and what is plenty of history for one person is inadequate for another, and we have a large church, and that’s a big problem. it's contrary to what i know of elder packer and the way he operates. this talk upset me because oaks is again playing word games with the membership, and not really revealing any truths that god or an angel told him about.’ in 1949, while criticizing the legislative efforts in arizona to ‘guarantee rights of negroes,’ lds presidency counselor david o. was it brennan or black who said the constitution was "whatever wesay it means"? speech combined with packer's infamous "not all things that are true are useful" speech goes a long way toward explaining the justification for the institutional lying that the church has engaged in from the beginning."but other than that, the mormons are absolutely correct in defending the 'ancient order of marriage. of all the aggressive means in the believer's playbook against a family member who is apostatizing, "shunning"--the action of purposefully ignoring someone, leaving them out of consideration--covers a lot of what would be done. you make any mistakes, you have not been following hf's plan. oaks is a modern-day exhibit a of that morally-depleted reality. that’s what oaks would say - and in saying so, he would have just exploded his own weird thesis, for in it, prayer to and praise of god is explicitly exemplified, and recommended to be, in familiar language. oaks couches the tbm compulsion in gentle terms in his conclusion, but he advances his argument with terms like "division" in the home and the inevitability ("after all we can do") of "impairing" our family relationships. as a young woman, zina held that book in her hands and said, “this is the truth, truth, truth. however, my son is my closest family member and i have to consider his needs in life first, above all else. toscano was cited by heinz, his stake president, for criticizing church leaders and acting contrary to the role and order of the church. the excoriation of homosexuals will then be recharacterized by mopologists as the 'talking as men' that dates back all the way to the ot." ("packer says he was concerned by request for meeting, but apostles endorsed it," by "associated press," in "salt lake tribune," 17 october 1993, sec. dates for the purpose, of course, of finding an eternal companion, but let’s do first things first! so, that's all i know about that at this point. because the church is true anyway, so the end justifies such means. oaks], [t]he ancient order of marriage is the divinely sanctioned union, recognized by the state, between one man and one woman[. president roosevelt said:“it is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. in 1965 and 1967, he stated in televised meetings on temple square in salt lake city that ‘the so-called civil rights movement as it exists today is a communist program for revolution in america. finally, once the cat was out of the bag, oaks had expected me to help cover his posterior by covering my mouth. benson's negrophobic rhetoric intensified after the federal civil rights act of 1964 drastically changed utah's patterns of racial discrimination. you don’t want to be getting into and creating doubts that didn’t exist in the first place. so i imagine it's good that i watched this, because i've been away long enough, that i forgot how sneakily manipulative this lds doctrine is. enforcement of ethical treatment for gay and lesbian patients who patronize lds owned hospitals. respect to comparing and competing in our personal lives, elder holland counseled parents:Try not to compare your children, even if you think you are skillful at it. maxwell assured us, “no one else is placed exactly as we are in our opportune human orbits” (“consecrate thy performance,” ensign, may 2002, 37–38). why don't spend more time addressing you're own shallowness and hyprocrisy instead of lecturing me? in the middle of the visit i said, “you have told me what it's like to be a young woman in africa. has not yet provided final proofs as to the truthfulness of the book of mormon. oaks broke that ground rule, thereby releasing me from any obligation of silence in the toscano cover up. 6 letter did he contact the reporter to issue a limited retraction. 24, oaks had told benson he was 'distressed and astonished' that packer had met with heinz. they are therefore more apt to find and point out faults of those around them. at least three champions of the sydney to melbourne race have used the shuffle to win the race. the next five days, i privately struggled with how to publicly deal with oaks' blatant dishonesties. october 29, 1993, at the farms banquet in question held in provo, utah, oaks concluded his after-dinner speech,"the historicity of the book of mormon," with this glowing tribute to farms apologists:"brothers and sisters, how grateful we are--all of us who rely on scholarship, faith and revelation--for what you are doing.: "he compares what i said to him in a confidential setting, relating to church issues, with a transcript of the interview that i had with you"--. oaks,I listened to your conference address and have felt the effects of your talk in my personal life. oaks in june ensign: quit hanging out and start dating thursday, may 25, 2006, at 08:57 am original author(s): lunar quaker topic: dallin h."but other than that, the mormons are absolutely correct in defending the 'ancient order of marriage. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ oaks in his pbs interview:The book of job is one of the books of the old testament. quality of life for the healthy is astronomically better in nearly every nation., told students at brigham young university-idaho in rexburg that latter-day saints "must not be deterred or coerced into silence" by advocates for "alleged civil rights. speaking of our church callings, president hinckley said:We are all in this great endeavor together. they wept when they told me how much they are learning from watching you. the people of the united states, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this constitution for the united states of america. he is really saying is that less and less people are listening to religious leaders and even."oaks called the 'republic's' reporter that night and retracted the 'i have no knowledge of whether he [packer] did' statement."i don't see where the lds church has been denied any of their rights," she said. the old saw that it would have been ruinous financially to the lds church simply doesn't hold water if man's laws don't affect god's laws. how we never hear the brethren say, "and you young men, be sure never to play "shirts-n-skins" on the asphalt, as the sight of your bare chests may invoke impure thoughts in the minds of our sisters. a personal, face-to-face conversation between steve benson, oaks and fellow apostle neal maxwell on september 9, 1993, in maxwell's salt private salt lake city church office, oaks told benson that farms was guilty of overdoing its apologetics in behalf of the book of mormon:" ."my dictionary defines lying as being 'deliberately untruthful' and a 'lie' as 'a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive. difficult question is whether we are morally responsible to tell the whole truth. it would be analogous to having an individual come to me and say, 'just between us, i killed my wife,' then turn around and tell the press that the next-door neighbor did it. eventually, however, oaks's cover was blown--at which point oaks, according to my source, offered to resign from the quorum of the twelve apostles. referring to elder packer, you observed that 'you can't stage manage a grizzly bear. he wants them being confrontational and chastising with the non-believers in their families. (i once heard someone day that "gays are pretty much worthless and they should all be gased" right at lds hospital. during a frontal assault, hi machine gun mowed down scores of enemy infantry.: "i assume, i take the arizona republic at, at face value. this evasive approach impeded both law enforcement authorities, lds church members and the public at large in any genuine effort they were attempting to get at the truth.: "and the sentence is this, about having a conversation: 'so, if elder packer is having any conversation with kerry heinz'"--."while elder oaks said he was glad to correct his misstatement, he didn't like benson's methods. saith unto him, if i will that he tarry till i come, what is that to thee? plus, i seem to remember a guy named jesus saying something about not being able to serve god and mammon (money) at the same time.: how does it make sense to say that the “special language of prayer follows different forms in different languages, but the principle is always the same”? what if the b tithing were diverted to cancer research? he can't do that, could he please just give up and sit down?"however, in a 'personal and confidential' letter to oaks on oct. he also said that women should look for inexpensive and simple dates and not expect expensive ones and certainly not dates that could lead to relationships, at least not until several dates later.'s time we start supporting each other in america and stop attacking and dividing. i was sad to realize how untrue the church was, after reading the church's early documents. he said he becomes concerned when farms 'stops making shields and starts turning out swords,' because, he said, 'you cannot prove the book of mormon out of the realm of faith. now, i am at peace because i have watched the behavior of many mormons long enough now to see how a corrupt organization turns love into a perverse concept. plead for the guidance of the spirit of the lord to forgive wrongs (as president faust has just taught us so beautifully), to overcome faults, and to strengthen relationships."'all things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not' (1 corinthians 10:23). facilitating access to religious information, a “crime” that the mormon church would probably make, in essence, against the guy who smuggled joseph’s “kirtland papers” (the egyptian grammar book) out of the archives, against the tanners for publishing it, against grant palmer or michael quinn or anyone else who would dare reveal religious information and facilitate the holding accountable of men who make authority claims identical to (and identically as specious as) the catholic popes and priests the church once derided in its endowment ceremony."in a statement issued friday, elder packer said, 'in late june, president kerry heinz asked his regional representative if he could arrange an appointment with me. with oaks' full-court press aimed at damage control, i determined it was time to push back. america's beloved contralto ‘was allowed to stay at the hotel utah on condition that she use the freight elevator. forward to my meeting with oaks and maxwell in september 1993. finally one young woman, her name was vivian, stood regally in the back of the room and said in her beautiful british accent: “sister dalton, it is true. next came my family's horrible attacks on my character and my own little family. he's an intelligent guy but he just can't seem to see the elephant in the room when he talks about gay marriage, namely the 60 year involvement of the lds church with polygamy. is the full transcript of the ensuing conversation between oaks (o) and brinkley-rogers (br), taped by brinkley-rogers (which he later allowed me to audio-copy and which copy is currently in my possession).: "so, to answer your question, i'd say that i just don't choose to affirm or deny. in a judicial proceeding, the sworn duty to tell the whole truth is confined to matters relevant to the proceeding. shying away from forthrightly informing readers on matters of public importance only guarantees that wrongs will be perpetrated and, in the long run, serves only to hurt the church. a con man is a person you would trust with your life, such men are totally believable, that’s why they are so effective. it comes to his "testimony" of the book of mormon, let's look at what oaks really thinks about its so called "historicity. is easy to imagine that addressing the creator of the universe, the embodiment of all righteousness and perfection, should impel us to use language different from that which we use to talk to goldfish or prison inmates. six weeks after having met with oaks and maxwell--on 29 october 1993--oaks then spoke publicly on the book of mormon, in a sermon entitled, "the historicity of the book of mormon," which was delivered at the annual dinner for the foundation for ancient research and mormon studies (farms) in provo, utah. even by the time of shakespeare and the kjv it was falling out of use in se, and i know for a fact that some linguists believe that the only reason shakespeare used it so often in his plays (whereas contemporaries like ben jonson used it rarely) was that he (supposedly) hailed from warwickshire, where it was still a part of the dialect.’” (quinn adds that mckay, in fact, “instructed an arizona stake president against that state's proposed legislation to ‘guarantee rights of negroes’") . employers who did hire blacks also discriminated against them in job assignment, promotion, and salary. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ "in order to perform their personal ministries, church leaders cannot be suspicious and questioning of each of the hundreds of people they meet each year. oaks is a hired gun of modest legal skills, excessive ego and stunted morals--a person whose professional abilities have been overhyped by mormons desperate for someone with supposed "smarts" to carry their kooky and corrupt banner. maybe the lds church could do a 180 and become an agent for helping to foster the enlightenment going on in the attitudes towards homosexuality.--the utah mormon church’s support of racial discrimination outside the boundaries of utah--. where there is no duty to disclose, we have two alternatives. i am sure i did not speak that sentence with intent to deceive, but whether it was an inadvertence or a result of forgetfulness in the context of a long and far-reaching interview, i cannot be sure., four years later, elder oaks was back, thus time going after those who complained that the church was not providing their needs. went to the press, laid out the entire story and submitted my letter of resignation from the mormon church. year in australia, an endurance race that goes from sydney to melbourne is held. "by comparing these two things, it diminishes the real violence that african-americans experienced in the '60s, when they were struggling for equal rights. after he published his translation, one which broadly would come to serve as the template for future translations, including the kjv, he was pursued by the catholic church, caught, and then burned at the stake. he also gave tv and radio interviews on this subject.’ this occurred three years after his father [mormon church president brigham young] had publicly informed the mormons that if african-americans had relations with white women, ‘the penalty, under the law of god, is death on the spot. he has the “authority” to tell people how to live and what to think but takes no responsibility for how his words affect his followers."except, if you are jesus, and married to both mary magdalene and elizabeth (and likely others) ([a] [t]eaching unique to early mormon apostles, most notably jedediah grant, orson hyde, and brigham young). what he aptly describes as mormon “social hysteria,” quinn recounts how, with the mormon church’s support, laws were enacted in utah that made interracial marriage a punishable crime. your humble and united pleadings will bring you closer to the lord and to each other and will help you in the hard climb back to marital harmony. it only requires a man and a woman committed to strive together toward perfection. they encourage members to try to intercede with those who have left and no longer believe. 'i had to let elder oaks walk a plank of his own making. eyring urged in april general conference, we can pray, “please let me serve, this day” (“this day,” ensign, may 2007, 90). your request for confidentiality, i believe, has been superceded by the fact that you have lied in public, contrary to the facts as you know them, and that your hope of confidentiality rests on maintaining the deception. in her 1300 sf house with 4 other kids and an abusive husband! 10, steve benson wrote us a letter expressing gratitude for 'being able to talk freely in an atmosphere of trust,' reaffirming his commitment to 'honor completely the confidentiality of our conversation, in not speaking, or even alluding to, for the record anything said by either of you,' and asking for another meeting to deal with 'some follow-up questions. indeed, it seems plausible that hinckley--who had a well-known reputation and interest in positive media spin in behalf of the mormon church--might have concluded that having oaks resign would have been a far worse public relations disaster than the pr problem created by the fact that oaks had criticized his senior in the quorum of the twelve packer.“i have met persons who told me they have never had a witness from the holy ghost because they have never felt their bosom ‘burn within’ them. in this environment, being a man or woman of integrity will not put you at a competitive disadvantage among those who may be compromising standards of honesty; rather, it will work to your benefit. of all, i resented the fact that oaks had put me in this position in the first place. not only that, but by women letting men hang out and *gasp* feeding them (he called it subsidizing freeloaders) the the men won't "grow up" and start pairing off instead of just hangin out., i don't hold think there is anything particularly unusual, or even wrong, about anyone, including dallin oaks, saying silly things once in awhile. next turned to the "salt lake tribune," to further defend his honor. he also spoke about bullying and the "permanent" psychological damage that bullying can cause children by making them feel "worthless, unloved, or unwanted. four of his on-the-record answers are quoted below, paired with contrary facts he provided me in the sept. and i feel pretty sure that oaks' would defend the continued use of the kjv as staunchly (and as unconvincingly) as he does "the language of prayer". history would have it, toscano's outspoken support of independent thinking and his public willingness to defy mormon authority ultimately led to toscano's excommunication--followed by oaks' effort to bury and lie about the details. in sympathy with the church's decision to buy these mclellin papers back, oaks noted that president joseph f.' i sincerely hope that arrangements can be made to publish my letter in your paper. a young man or woman really getting all the education they can if they are “satisfied with mediocre performance”? no, i played the tape for steve of, uh, our interview, you know, after the interview and i noticed that he looked sort of surprised by it. a weakening can be attributed "to the ascendancy of moral relativism. to endorse this warping is to insult the very kjv translators who the church claims were inspired to write what they did. trespassing on church-owned property (arrests of 2 gay men found on church property, and the church owns a lot of property). if she is satisfied with simply being better than someone else, she may, in the words of president hinckley, be “too prone to be satisfied with mediocre performance [when she is] capable of doing so much better” (“standing strong,” 21). oaks takes a swat at those whose names were removed, other interesting tidbits from 2013 midwest area conference. 6 letter did he contact the reporter to issue a limited retraction. but i wish all of my facts in their proper context, with emphasis on those elements which explain the great growth and power of this organization. in the course of writing history, i said that people ought to be careful in what they publish because not everything that’s true is useful. truth is ultimately our best defense and the best way of doing business."we encourage children to define themselves by their growing testimonies, not their athletic or academic achievements.“in 1961, a survey of salt lake city by the naacp showed that 12 percent of cafes, restaurants, and taverns declined to serve blacks, while 80 percent of the city's beauty shops and barber shops refused to do so."the idea that all truth is based on scientific evidence is simply untrue. this she must do in behalf of her blood, her essence, of the stock of her caucasian race. "confrontation" sounds pretty active, in your face, and that can include the social violence of shunning or stigmatizing (and of course there is no lack of that directed by church members toward "apostates"). facilitating access to religious information, a “crime” that the mormon church would probably make, in essence, against the guy who smuggled joseph’s “kirtland papers” (the egyptian grammar book) out of the archives, against the tanners for publishing it, against grant palmer or michael quinn or anyone else who would dare reveal religious information and facilitate the holding accountable of men who make authority claims identical to (and identically as specious as) the catholic popes and priests the church once derided in its endowment ceremony.”internationally renowned singer marian anderson endured this racial discrimination in utah. is 'a mythical being thought to be able to live in fire.: "but what i am saying is that i just don't choose to go, uh, i don't choose to be–what's the word i'm looking for? verse by verse--comparing moroni 10 to first corinthians 12--the texts were shown to be almost exactly the same. trouble is, it then does get out--into the larger world, that is, and exposes them as deceptive brokers doing the dishonest bidding of their mormon cult.: "and i am sorry for it, but in a, in a, our, our interview was 60 minutes long and, you know, i was shooting from the hip (inaudible) along"--. interesting stuff from that page:The notion of "freedom of the press" that later was enshrined in the united states constitution is generally traced to the seditious libel prosecution of john peter zenger by the colonial governor of new york in 1735. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ based on reliable information recently shared with me from an inside-the mormon-beltway utah source, lds apostle dallin h." we went through, we have decided that it will be a cold day in the tropics before we ever approach the bishop again, and we will never go onto food help either. but, deity must be addressed, in english, using formal speech (though he doesn't explain why all other languages should use the informal, as the church insists they do). he is also saying is goddamnit i don't want to be within 1 million miles of our tax status being messed with! said that the whole question of this portion of the investigation centered on whether hofmann even had the mclellin papers. said the quorum of the twelve debated about when they should bring the mclellin papers forward.: --"then i'll stand by the transcript of things that i said to you, but that statement, 'i have no knowledge of whether he did'"--. follows is a compare-and-contrast examination of what oaks said in that earlier private meeting in the church administration building in salt lake city about the book of mormon, as compared to what he publicly told the farms audience a few weeks later at their banquet in provo., a member of the quorum of the twelve apostles, took on a number of hot-button issues in a speech centered around the need to protect vulnerable children. we know that moses brought forth what’s called the pentateuch, and it is part of the great religious tradition of judaism and christianity. oaks said the book explained the proper context, the role of the church and the facts on the ground regarding the mclellin papers."in other words, you have told the truth in private about the packer-heinz meeting, while denying the truth in public.: "but i do wish to withdraw a sentence which, as i read it on the transcript, is inaccurate.” it will remind us of our uniqueness, our individual and infinite worth, and our “own divine mission” our heavenly father expects us to accomplish, regardless of what others accomplish. took a few notes from the easter midwest area conference another poster described. and when the prophet speaks, the thinking has been done.: "i think his notes are quite self-serving, but that's, that's simply my, my perspective. it is so important in the confederate version that it is in the opening sentance. a private meeting with mormon apostle dallin oaks in 1985 shortly after the hofmann bombings (followed by a second conversation with oaks and, finally, in discussions with both oaks and fellow apostle neal maxwell), i learned from oaks just how committed the mormon church was to not telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help it elohim. he has said, “the world into which you will move will be terribly competitive” (“words of the prophet: a chosen generation,” new era, january 1999, 6).: "it’s an old problem, the extent to which official histories, whatever they are, or semi-official histories, get into things that are shadowy or less well-known or whatever. finally landing dh a job with the largest private corporation selling handguns at the time (walmart). lays blame at women's feet in ensign article tuesday, may 30, 2006, at 07:41 am original author(s): gemini topic: dallin h. i spoke at length with family, friends and colleagues--seeking advice and weighing my options. tell the truth is a general religious obligation, whether we are sworn or not. it was these papers that were the subject of my conversation with oaks and maxwell. in 1944, the first presidency authorized local lds leaders to join ‘as individuals a civic organization whose purpose is to restrict and control negro settlement’ in salt lake city. it took a long time, but i'd always catch them. this person had written that they were leaving because the church didn't seem to care about them and was not providing for their needs. the lds president was president of the hotel, and his counselors were its senior vice-presidents. they used all kinds of threats and manipulation to get me to go back to church. in sympathy with the mormon church's decision to buy these mclellin papers back, oaks noted that president joseph f. dallin oaks is saying that twenty-somethings need to quit "hanging out" and start dating!"benson said he felt acutely the moral dilemma of having promised confidentiality, but then having seen deliberate efforts to mislead the public about packer's role in the toscano affair. and in the end, there is nothing else, except "because"."benson also wrote that oaks 'further acknowledged that you later talked directly to elder packer and told him that you felt it was wrong and violated church disciplinary procedure for elder packer to have been in contact with president heinz. graduates and other saints suffer worldly criticism and perhaps even persecution."first, by framing his answer in the hypothetical, elder oaks falsely implied that he did not know whether elder packer had talked with paul toscano's stake president, kerry heinz. they told him there was no way he could ever finish. in all of this, we should realize that a good marriage does not require a perfect man or a perfect woman. 'i absolutely did not instruct him to hold a disciplinary council and did not then, nor have i ever, directed any verdict. you may never have the opportunity for a suitable marriage in this life, so stop waiting and start moving.

Elder oaks dating versus hanging out

: "in the course of doing that, i spoke to him confidentially and in a privileged relationship"--. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ from the salt lake tribune:Lds apostle dallin h."one wonders why so many writers neglected to reveal to their readers that there is another meaning of salamander, which may even have been the primary meaning in this context in the 1820s. these abstract 'good mormon parents' full of spiritual purity he was talking about don't exist. he explained that he had misspoken during an hour-long interview and when he was notified of that he called the reporter to retract a 'statement i could not defend. said that the mclellin papers held by the church had been originally purchased by a representative sent by then-president joseph f. guess that’s probably why they do it that way now ? i was obeying all of the commandments at the time that i started researching mormon literature and history to find the truths for myself. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ last week, senator orrin hatch broke ranks with a couple of tribes to which he belongs and said in an interview that he believes laws governing marriage should be left in the hands of the states."in relation to history, i was speaking in that talk for the benefit of those that write history. he really means is more valuable and important than other organizations in society. the story of the english bible, the catholics are the bad guys. oaks' misrepresentations--indeed, his out-and-out lies--prompted me to fax him a letter a few days after the interview. instead of being "amused to death," they are "bored to death" at church. oaks had not come close to coming clean, as i had hoped and expected he would. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ this is a touchy issue. smith, an assistant to the quorum of the twelve apostles] about the use of [lds] meeting houses for meetings to prevent negroes from becoming neighbors. all this time you let everyone else continue to think that you’ve already had this “revelation” from god when in truth you simply wanted to get a revelation. isn’t it rather amazing that in a world that insists on purity in the air and environment, and in our food, that we do not insist on moral purity which lies at the very foundation of every successful and powerful society? (see "cracks in the temple: mormon unity in peril," paul brinkley-rogers, "arizona republic," 11 october 1993, sec. i met him once at the edinburgh mission home when i was 18. think that the true and living church of jesus christ would teach good citizenship and obedience to civil law. in other words, a person lies by concealing when he or she has a duty to reveal. 'i, therefore, in a meeting of the council of the twelve apostles raised the question of whether i should see him., contrast oaks' privately-expressed criticisms of farms with what he subsequently uttered about farms in a patently disingenuous display of situational schmoozing--expressed, no less, at a banquet hosted by farms, where oaks, as the featured speaker, was being both worshipped and fed.' he said that 'it was a mistake for packer to meet with heinz and a mistake for heinz to ask for the meeting. years later, i went to the state, and dh was making too much money for aide, so i went to the bishop again. hinckley, “standing strong and immovable,” worldwide leadership training meeting: the priesthood and the auxiliaries of the relief society, young women, and primary, 10 january 2004 (salt lake city: the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints, 2004), 21]. we had to get letters from all our family explaining their living situation. told me that when it came to the church's attention that it did, in fact, have mclellin papers in its possession, the discovery process was already underway, preliminary trial motions were ongoing and hofmann was destined to plea-bargain in july. maxwell and i met with steve and mary ann benson for about two and one-half hours to discuss their questions. in fact that's the problem with all these conference 'talks'. of course, the church could grant or refuse marriage and other ordinances according to worthiness set by church standards, and employ only those members who met church standards, but that would be the limit!: "and he was comparing that with notes he'd made earlier when he had a conversation"--. don't take the 5% that you have serious questions about and cast out the 95% that is unexplained or divinely inspired. nod to the old, "everything will fall apart in society if we abandon religion", fear tactic. oaks spoke yesterday tuesday, sep 21, 2010, at 07:44 am original author(s): michaelm topic: dallin h. the answer is a single statement from the president of the church. so he transmitted a confidential letter to elder oaks pointing that out. private views on the bom wednesday, nov 18, 2015, at 07:42 am original author(s): steve benson topic: dallin h. smith to texas who, under orders to make sure they did not fall into "the wrong hands," acquired them for . now the fireworks were lighting up the temple square skyline.: temple ceremonies changed to remove penalties and "five points of fellowship"."i referred to these fundamentals as the divinely inspired principles in the constitution, and i here affirm my belief that they are. 'even though i could defend myself by affirming or denying those things, i don't feel free' to do that without violating a pledge of confidentiality, he said. next came my family's horrible attacks on my character and my own little family. also cautioned that it should be assumed that kids raised by same-sex couples or unwed mothers will be at a disadvantage.’ in 1968, apostle benson also instructed byu students about ‘black marxists’ and ‘the communists and their black power fanatics. four days after oaks' article appeared in the 'salt lake tribune,' my own commentary followed in the same newspaper, giving a somewhat different perspective on events:"mormons are admonished to be honest. hunter (1)   · hugh nibley (13)   · hymns (7)   · interviews in mormonism (18)   · j reuben clark (1)   · james e. leasing, renting or selling of housing to gay or lesbian persons. russell ballard from a speech ballard delivered in 2008 at brigham young university, oaks declared]: 'we follow jesus christ by adhering to god's law of marriage, which is marriage between one man and one woman. it appears that you have asked me not to publicly divulge our conversation in your hope that my initial agreement to remain silent would keep the accuracy of your public utterances from being challenged. can't help but laugh after reading the above paragraph and then reading these subsequent ones:"another source of differences in the accounts of different witnesses is the different meanings that different persons attach to words. your destiny is to be a wife and a mother in zion, not a model and a streetwalker in babylon. is far more significant than the large and unique celebration of one sabbath per year. oaks on her first months of marriage to elder oaks. reuben clark said), or the nrsv, even the esv which maintains the “virgin”/parthenos/alma/beutlah/isaiah/matthew deal for the born agains. he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents."fourth, elder oaks summarized his knowledge of the packer-heinz-toscano case by once again falsely pleading ignorance., if matthew and paul and luke et al didn’t use some archaic, pseudo-dignified form of speech in writing about the most sacred matters imaginable - jesus’ suffering, crucifixion, and resurrection - and don’t even quote jesus using anything other than common speech in addressing god, on what grounds can dallin oaks or anyone now claim that the scriptures (and our prayers) are so sacred as to merit warping in this way? took a few notes from the easter midwest area conference another poster described. said he becomes concerned when farms "stops making shields and starts turning out swords," because, he said, "you cannot prove the book of mormon out of the realm of faith. it will require that we: 1) dream big, 2) move out of our comfort zones, and 3) go forward with full confidence relying on the strength of the lord.’s even worse is that neither the old testament nor the new was originally written in anything other than plain language. because “of the hardness of [our] hearts,” the lord does not currently enforce the consequences of the celestial standard. oaks defends joseph destroying the press monday, aug 1, 2005, at 08:53 am original author(s): helemon topic: dallin h. oaks blames not turning over subpoenaed evidence in hofmann case on ga vacation schedule sunday, jul 11, 2010, at 06:37 pm original author(s): steve benson topic: dallin h. materials contained on this website are protected by united states and international copyright and other applicable laws. the conclusion of the interview, i picked brinkley-rogers up outside the church administration building and asked how it went. used the word "chasteneth," saying that god chastens and thereby shows his love."'it impugned my integrity and seriously distorted the account of the facts as it was presented,' oaks said in an interview this week. personal ministry may not bring to us the recognition and the praise of men. claimed that at the time the church brought them out, it realized (apparently, he suggested, for the first time) that they spoke positively and glowingly of the church. persons who make true statements out of an evil motive, such as those who seek to injure another, use the truth unrighteously. our side will settle for a draw, but those who deny the historicity of the book of mormon cannot settle for a draw. would note that the doctrine and covenants states that those who are not married for time and all of eternity will be servants to those who are married in the next life. blacks were prohibited from eating at the lunch counter of salt lake's city-county building. oaks attempts to defend his anti-criticsm comments on the pbs documentary, "the mormons" thursday, may 8, 2008, at 07:38 am original author(s): steve benson topic: dallin h. it can be mortifying to have to eat your shorts any time, but since we all make mistakes, and hopefully, all wish to learn, i think it's just part of life. it isn’t that we shouldn’t sleep; rather, it teaches us that we can change the world! associations through “hanging out” or exchanging information on the internet are not a sufficient basis for marriage. has occurred in mankind for as long as there has been a recorded history. to official mormon polygamous doctrine, when oaks moves on to the mormon hereafter, he will, at that point, be with both of his wives in time and eternal space in a threesome of wedded bliss forever. because the church is true anyway, so the end justifies such means. 7, i faxed him a second letter, thanking him for taking the opportunity to clarify his earlier statements. i honestly don't remember hearing anything other than a passing reference about the glorious resurrection of christ., if you are the patriarch, abraham, in which case you can be married to sarah (who might be your half-sister), and to sarah's slave girl, hagar. protections against hate crimes or hate speech if the person who is making the threats is doing so for "religion". is just pure bs, nothing much has to be said other than, are you freaking kidding me? that’s an old problem in mormonism – a feeling of members that they shouldn’t have been surprised by the fact that this or that happened, they should’ve been alerted to it. it made no mention of the sentence i had withdrawn., he agreed that the church could provide us with food (i was still working by attending births), but only if dh would really go out and get work. in 2000, he married kristen mcmain, both of whom are sealed to him for time and all eternity--contrary to the "ancient order of marriage."in view of all this, and as a matter of intellectual evaluation, why all the excitement in the media, and why the apparent hand-wringing among those who profess friendship or membership in the church?“i was guilty of levity, and sometimes associated with jovial company . but more careful scholarship shows that the words we now use in the language of prayer were once commonly used by persons of rank in addressing persons of inferior position. many more gifts are mentioned in talks on this subject given by elder marvin j. five of them--one who was disfellowshipped and four who were excommunicated--said they were disciplined for apostasy and are victims of an orchestrated purge. i was obeying all of the commandments at the time that i started researching mormon literature and history to find the truths for myself. after a few pleasantries, this respected scientist said, “you know what i like about your presentations?, for the inconvenient caveats:"except, if you are the patriarch abraham, in which case you can be married to sarah (who might be your half-sister), and to sarah's slave girl, hagar." he urged parents and caregivers to respond to children who struggle, including with same-sex attraction, with "loving understanding, not bullying or ostracism.’d like to share with you my testimony that when you make a transition, you are never alone., all this to say agree that when the saints need help, as much as they may have paid into the system, the church probably will not pay them a dime or help them at all.: --"and, uh, i presume that you don't know about its contents"--. evident in salt lake city, where a warning to ‘meddle not with white women’ was pinned to the flesh of a murdered black man in 1866. perhaps our writing of history is lagging behind the times, but i believe that there is purpose in all these things there may have been a time when church members could not have been as well prepared for that kind of historical writing as they may be now. course, there can be times when one spouse falls short and the other is wounded and feels pain. his goal was simply to make the best presentation possible and represent himself and byu as capably as he could. i perused it, and there is some big talk about "twenty-something peter pans" who don't want to grow up. since everyone was on vacation in august, he said, there was no one to make decisions during that time frame. i therefore felt it my moral obligation to break the silence that otherwise would have served only to perpetuate falsehood and false faith. a man may have a blemish on his cheek and still have a face of beauty and strength, but if the blemish is emphasized unduly in relation to his other features, the portrait is lacking in integrity. same english words were also used in communications between persons in an intimate relationship. in every church, in every person, there’s a shallow territory usually explained away through context. was the same conversation in which oaks privately confessed to me that boyd k."benson said he had no hidden agenda to corner a church authority."the story was published four days later in the arizona republic newspaper, without the statement. my son doesn't get to see them at christmas or to play with his many cousins. women weren't so doggone independent and aggressive due to the women's movement, then men wouldn't be afraid to ask them out on dates. in a judicial proceeding, the sworn duty to tell the whole truth is confined to matters relevant to the proceeding.("benson replies, charges oaks with dissembling," in "salt lake tribune," 25 october 1993, sec. told me that, by meeting with heinz, packer had gone outside the bounds of his assigned responsibility. soon the members don’t know the difference between lying and honesty anyway. do not have the ability to impress upon your minds and hearts as powerfully and indelibly as i desire the glorious reality that each of you individually is of infinite worth to god, your heavenly father. i was torn between remaining quiet (thereby preserving a confidentiality agreement) or setting the record straight (thereby exposing oaks' act of calculated deception).: "the sentence is, is toward the end of the interview. has shown huge returns on investment over the past century. i don't want him to be shunned and manipulated by family members the way i was. because of this experience we now enthusiastically support only monogamous heterosexual marriage, history has taught us that it is the best organization for families. oaks broke that ground rule, thereby releasing me from any obligation of silence in the toscano cover up.--the utah mormon church’s early and continued support of institutionalized slavery--.: "compared with the tape, and that's, uh, what i'd like to do, is deal separately with you. know that, as well, but won't admit it, will you? not to mention that 100 bishops would probably give 100 different answers! while listening to him talk about this situation where 'good mormon parents' are confronted with this dilemma of one of their kids living in non-married sin i noticed that he was talking about an abstract version of the situation according to law. i called my married sister in tears and asked how to sort them and she told me to go stand by the window. their bodies were piled so high in front of his gun that he and his men had to push them away in order to maintain their field of fire. but, from everything i read in the scriptures, i don’t think the lord likes us to be in a comfort zone. (after all, the only reason why someone might say far fewer silly things than average would be if they were a "special witness" of, with special access to, the faultless, omniscient mind of a deity, like the ascended jesus of nazareth. during our brief chat, oaks was very cryptic in his comments, saying nothing of substance about the hofmann scandal. immediately i was told that we needed to sell our house! to packer's admission of meeting with heinz, toscano said, "i knew all along that boyd packer was behind it. really wish someone would testify a counter argument to congress. according to my notes taken during our discussion, you acknowledged that elder packer met with president heinz prior to the rendering of judgment by the stake disciplinary council. the king was above public criticism and that statements critical of the government were forbidden, according to the english court of the star chamber.: "but he, he claims to have notes of things that i've said in the, in the conversation with him"--." this was a very horrible thing to say to a daughter who has just lost her best friend, her mother. might reply that he was entitled to use this term, since god was his literal father. repeatedly affirmed that no african-american could stay at the lds church-owned hotel utah (which had maintained this exclusion since its opening in 1911). for that matter, it's best not to tell anyone except your good buddies, because then they might think twice about your apostolic calling., i turned to provo's community newspaper, "the daily herald," hoping for a sympathetic ear. he once said to a priest, “ere many years, i will cause a boy that driveth a plough to know more of the scriptures than thou dost”. god bless the founders and the supporters and the workers of the foundation for ancient research and mormon studies. if elder packer is having any conversation with kerry heinz, it s outside the normal channel . one can work to correct them by some other means, but don’t go about saying that they misbehaved when they were a youngster or whatever."second, elder oaks falsely claimed ignorance of whether elder packer conversed with president heinz. and well, the idea of having mortgages/rents utilities or other bills paid., he agreed that the church could provide us with food (i was still working by attending births), but only if dh would really go out and get work.: "now, i assume, as i told you at the time, that you're a professional journalist"--.: "when i did that, i saw one sentence in my interview with you--and only one sentence--that i would say overstated the truth. oaks said the mormon church was concerned the papers mclellin had purloined would turn out to be very negative and reflect poorly on the church. ezra taft benson was denouncing it as a communist plot, while the rank and file held the separation of races as part of the divine plan." we went through, we have decided that it will be a cold day in the tropics before we ever approach the bishop again, and we will never go onto food help either."i informed him that our confidentiality agreement was void and offered him 24 hours to set the record straight, advising him that if he did not, i would. the rights of others would be respected and protected under the constitution of the united states.’ the salt lake city school district prohibited blacks from being teachers and from fulfilling student-teaching requirements of their university training. it possible to “impress the right people,” as my advisor suggested, without aspiring to the honors of men or seeking to draw attention to oneself? i called my married sister in tears and asked how to sort them and she told me to go stand by the window. wish i could say it was an easy decision--that i saw the road brightly ahead of me from the moment i was confronted with oaks' deceit--but that was not the case. persons who reveal truths that they hold under obligations of confidentiality, such as medical doctors, or lawyers, or bishops who have heard confessions, are guilty of wrongdoing. fact that is clear, however, is that the mormon church--in private admissions by its own leaders--deliberately blocked examination by law enforcement investigators of evidence in possession of the lds church that could have potentially aided in getting to the bottom of the hofmann case and could have helped bring to light important matters in a much more expeditious fashion.: "now, he had, the reason i had to ask that is that he had the manuscript that was our interview. might be okay, except that the church itself translates all references to deity, in its scriptures, its manuals, its conference talks (even oaks'! 1, a reporter for the 'arizona republic' interviewed me for about an hour on a wide variety of subjects pertaining to current controversies over church discipline."profit" / "apostate" oaks to mormons in eight states: you were warned; you're on your own. we are too prone to be satisfied with mediocre performance. his example applies to all writings on church history and biography:? oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ from the salt lake tribune:Lds apostle dallin h. according to 'the arizona republic' story, elder oaks also said that if elder packer told the stake president what action to take against a church member, it would violate church policy and 'be contrary to what i know about elder packer and the way he operates. and well, the idea of having mortgages/rents utilities or other bills paid. oaks is said to have seriously considered resigning his position from the quorum of the twelve after it was publicly reported that he had disrespected a senior member of the quorum--in this case, boyd k.: "let me just, uh, let me just say this"--.: "and, and you, what i'm going to tell you why, i, uh, oh, why i was aroused by this. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ i'm a big fan of everyone's right to say stupid things. come to think of it, there are a bunch of ways in which your own eternal temple marriage is a complete emotional sham in order to keep up appearances. after describing a long list of supposed social ills, he said that church members should "assume" that "children raised by parents of the same gender" are "disadvantaged" and "victimized" by this circumstance. oaks in june ensign: quit hanging out and start dating. you have reached this page from an outside source such as an. he may never know how much that meant to us, though he denied that he was the one who was delivering the goods (non-member neighbors told us it was a man in his truck that was delivering the food, so we knew it was him).."'" [unless you have the audacity to question, abandon and then speak against mormonism! oaks attempts to defend his anti-criticsm comments on the pbs documentary, "the mormons" thursday, may 8, 2008, at 09:04 am original author(s): steve benson topic: dallin h."the apostle said he didn't willfully mislead a news reporter. but he said that during their talk elder oaks disclosed that elder packer and heinz were old friends who did get together at heinz's request and that such a meeting was a mistake.--he testifies from the pulpit of mormon "truth"--but behind closed doors comes across as less than "a special witness for christ. again, your patriarchal blessing contains guidance to help you remember who you are and the grand work in which you will play a unique and important part. was that it would effect a significant reallocation of law-making power from the states to the federal government. not to hang out or congregate with a lot of others, just the two of you and perhaps one other couple—on a date. packer - instructs members to gain a testimony by giving it thursday, apr 17, 2008, at 07:04 am original author(s): sick of it topic: dallin h. but then he writes this:Andgt;andgt;the special language of prayer that latter-day saints use in english has sometimes been explained by reference to the history of the english language. well-informed source who knows oaks personally told me that oaks could well have offered his resignation but then decided, upon receipt of outside advice, to not abandon ship.: "i assume that that's part of your professional approach to this and if i, if i can deal separately with you, independent of steve benson"--. can't necessarily become straight (hinkley: "others may not be free of this challenge in this life"). by the word return, i am not saying that all have made mistakes and need to return, but i am saying that it is possible to return, to repent to change because of the savior’s atonement. but the lds church has a history of violating the law and it's own public declarations with respect to marriage. packer: "have you explored the possibility that the cause, when found, will turn out to be a very typical form of selfishness -- selfishness in a very subtle form?“in 1961, a survey of salt lake city by the naacp showed that 12 percent of cafes, restaurants, and taverns declined to serve blacks, while 80 percent of the city's beauty shops and barber shops refused to do so. consciences of mormon church leaders (if such consciences even exist) must be heavily burdened with guilt, knowing how much they are deceiving the public, the press and the pews through their misleading and misdirecting claims.”19 as you dare to do great things, as you move out of your comfort zones and as you go forward with full confidence and trust in the lord, your future will unfold before you. subtitled ‘white alternatives’, this book warned about the ‘well-defined plans for the establishment of a negro soviet dictatorship in the south. that mormons, like african-americans, have been the victims of “aggressive intimidation” and "violence," oaks declared that such incidents were “anti-democratic” in nature and comparable to “the well-known and widely condemned voter-intimidation of blacks in the south that produced corrective federal civil-rights legislation. oaks, "religious freedom," transcript of speech delivered at brigham young university-idaho, rexburg, 13 october 2009). a personal, face-to-face conversation between steve benson, oaks and fellow apostle neal maxwell on september 9, 1993, in maxwell's salt private salt lake city church office, oaks told benson that farms was guilty of overdoing its apologetics in behalf of the book of mormon:" ."the subsequent news story published locally in tuesday's 'salt lake tribune' was the latest episode in a saga surrounding recent disciplinary action taken against six prominent mormon scholars and feminists. he told the reporter, 'i have no knowledge of whether he did. this talk upset me because oaks is again playing word games with the membership, and not really revealing any truths that god or an angel told him about."upon hearing oaks' attempted cover for packer, i was dismayed and faxed oaks a letter on oct. following its publication, oaks said the mormon church decided to release the mclellin documents it had in its possession.” but i want to emphasize that it be the very best. i wasn't going to even be a burden on the ward when we had babies - i didn't let them know when i had my 4th baby, so no meals were brought in, no help with the kids was ever accepted (though as a young mom i sure could have used it), unless i paid a teen to help me. there’s a husband-wife privilege, there’s a priest-penitent privilege, and so on., a member of the quorum of the twelve apostles, took on a number of hot-button issues in a speech centered around the need to protect vulnerable children. than speak about christ, the speakers essentially spoke about getting more people to do their duties, come to church, participate in activities, and pay tithing."i don't see where the lds church has been denied any of their rights," she said. we didn’t have it all figured out, but we grew together as we struggled and faced challenges together and went through transitions together. a reversal of fortunes, efforts by mormonism's highest leaders to discredit and discipline toscano for his fiercely-individualistic views eventually led to the public disgracing of both oaks and packer--men who, behind the scenes, had sought to have toscano muzzled and humiliated--and who spun public untruths about their efforts to do so. that meaning, which is listed second in a current edition of webster's new world dictionary, is "a spirit supposed to live in fire" (2d college ed. even after they promised to stop, they kept doing it in secret, now not only violating the law but their own word on the subject. let us all improve our personal behavior and redouble our efforts to protect our loved ones and our environment from the onslaught of pornography that threatens our spirituality, our marriages, and our children. my family was my world and i love them more than i will ever be able to express in words. to use lawyering as an example, what i am saying is that women should not attempt to be manly lawyers. did not leave the mormon church because of any personal offenses by my family or friends within the church. lie is also furthered when one remains silent in a circumstance where he or she has a duty to speak and disclose. we must be willing to change, to make transitions, to repent."(elder oaks may want to explain the contradiction between his claim of being surprised by the packer-heinz meeting and elder packer's claim that the twelve gave prior approval for that meeting). 1) i reached the reporter, advised him of the circumstances, and asked to withdraw the single sentence. benson would not say why he had a private talk with elder oaks. (no wonder he was in the mood to be so generous from the podium, despite what he felt about farms in private). he advised the church members that "real love for the sinner may compel confrontation. is too obtuse to see the irony wednesday, oct 14, 2009, at 07:43 am original author(s): multiple authors topic: dallin h.: --"i got the transcript out and reviewed it very carefully, the transcript of my interview with you. fortunately, not long after my experience with my advisor, i had the opportunity to pose that question to elder russell m. (i once heard someone day that "gays are pretty much worthless and they should all be gased" right at lds hospital. for example, the power to make laws on personal relationships is reserved to the states. showing and discussing these gifts in an institute class, one young woman asked, “what’s the gift to weep? 164], "an early apostle and close associate of joseph smith's who left the church in 1836 to become one of its bitterest enemies. comments in this talk also confirm what i have heard that letters to the apostles or first presidency are, as a matter of policy, forwarded to the writer’s bishop or stake president so they can address the questions. referring to elder packer, you observed that 'you can't stage manage a grizzly bear." similarly, the constitution of massachusetts (1780) declared, "the liberty of the press is essential to the security of freedom in a state: it ought not, therefore, to be restrained in this commonwealth.’ in 1967, apostle benson also approved the use of one of his talks as the forward to the overtly racist book ‘black hammer’, which featured the decapitated (and profusely bleeding) head of an african-american male on its cover." naifeh and smith wrote that "[i]t had long been rumored that mclellin, who kept the minutes at early meetings of the twelve, had taken with him a pirate's chest full of papers, letters and journals, all of it incriminating, with which to destroy the church. most mormon parents have a huge trail of hypocrisy behind them, of their own hideous mistakes, their shady business dealings, their own pettiness, their own pick-and-mixing of church doctrines, their own spiritual failures, their own betrayals of their own ideas and their children, their own shabby behaviour. i maintain that the issue of the historicity of the book of mormon is basically a difference between those who rely exclusively on scholarship and those who rely on a combination of scholarship, faith, and revelation. members who have experienced such abuse have firsthand knowledge of circumstances worse than divorce. explains why his lies aren't lies - teaches future church leaders the true order of lying wednesday, aug 2, 2006, at 08:59 am original author(s): lies and damn lies topic: dallin h. perhaps there is a pattern in the words joseph smith himself shares with us. however, i did not want to deprive my baby of an extended family, so i was willing to have an open mind and heart about my family and give them another chance. thus, if mormon enigma reveals information that is detrimental to the reputation of joseph smith, then it is necessary to try to limit its influence and that of its authors. they had covenants – so they had a focus and they knew exactly where they were headed."'it impugned my integrity and seriously distorted the account of the facts as it was presented,' oaks said in an interview this week. though we didn't qualify for church aid (we didn't pay tithing), he had a very kind heart. was it brennan or black who said the constitution was "whatever wesay it means"?"except, if you are brigham young, in which case you can have as many as 55 wives married to you in this life, and untold numbers sealed to you in the life hereafter. not to mention that 100 bishops would probably give 100 different answers! brinkley-rogers permitted me to listen to the full tape of the phone conversation between himself and oaks, i realized i had been duped. it is much more likely that we are actively and openly discrimminating against a specific group of people who have long endured our displeasure. we may be free to disclose if we choose to do so, but there will be circumstances where commandments, covenants, or professional obligations require us to remain silent. the time, i really treasured the book, and i loved the man, gandhi. i’d like to ask dallin oaks who “the great exemplar” is, if not jesus?

Dallin h oaks dating v hanging out

what the mormon church knew and when it knew it: murdering the truth in the mark hofmann bombing case wednesday, oct 24, 2012, at 09:14 am original author(s): steve benson topic: dallin h. it is a sad sign of the times that the u."following benson's resignation from the lds church, he made charges that lds apostle dallin h.--overview of the mormon church cover-up on the hofmann bombings. that's always the ultimate answer in authoritarian organizations, whether we all realize it or not. human nature being what it is, it is difficult to imagine even the most saintly pope or priest (or prophet) never wielding such power to satisfy his own interests. freedom "undergirds the origin and existence of this country and is the dominating civil liberty. short, dallin oaks might best be regarded as a jurist's and a gentleman's joke. than ten years after the federal courts banned states from prohibiting interracial marriage, a member of a stake presidency told my wife that she should marry "her own kind". oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ this is a touchy issue. analogy is so twisted on so many levels, but for one, where was lds during the civil rights marches of the 1960s. he said the mormon church decided it would wait until those proceedings were over, then produce them before trial.: --"i got the transcript out and reviewed it very carefully, the transcript of my interview with you. the savior himself uses this word a lot when he speaks to us, his sons and daughters. moreover, oaks' subsequent statements to the press in ensuing days were far from forthright. the use of the words white salamander and old spirit seem understandable. few years later (after hofmann had been bundled off to prison and prior to me meeting with oaks and maxwell in 1993), i again visited with oaks in salt lake city. forward to my meeting with oaks and maxwell in september 1993., if you are the patriarch, abraham, in which case you can be married to sarah (who might be your half-sister), and to sarah's slave girl, hagar. the next day, he disclosed to the 'associated press' details of confidential conversations and correspondence between him and elder oaks. the work that you do is important, it is well-known and it is appreciated. oaks on the absolute power of the gift of discernment. no one would buy it but the most diehard fanatics. but then he writes this:>>the special language of prayer that latter-day saints use in english has sometimes been explained by reference to the history of the english language. first, by couching your answer to the question of elder packer's conversation with president heinz in the hypothetical, you falsely imply, it seems to me, that you do not know whether he did talk with president heinz. oaks would have been criticizing tyndale, wycliffe, and the kjv translators if he’d lived several centuries ago. now, when (cough) i received this letter from steve, which was, uh, a very accusatory letter"--. after all, wouldn't a loving god not allow the lds church to exist, and to contaminate my mind with oaksian garbage? oaks is a modern-day exhibit a of that morally-depleted reality. lays blame at women's feet in ensign article tuesday, may 30, 2006, at 08:58 am original author(s): gemini topic: dallin h. all other uses require the prior written permission of byu speeches (218 upb, provo, ut 84602; speeches@byu. this person had written that they were leaving because the church didn't seem to care about them and was not providing for their needs. unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey., three keys in dealing with academic and professional competition are being well prepared, working very hard, and doing the very best you can, refusing “to be satisfied with mediocre performance. if i have a question regarding hinckley’s “i don’t know” statements wouldn’t an answer by anyone other than hinckley only be their opinion? oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ --mormon "apostle for the lord," dallin h. in one way or another, divorce touches most families in the church. the kjv translators - whose project, oddly enough, oaks reveres and loathes at the same time without realizing it - wanted the word of god totally comprehensible to everyone, i believe very strongly they would say he was every bit the religious bigot, upholder of superstition, and self-styled divine "authority" who actually inhibits the spread of the divine word by warring against its intelligibility, as were the catholic friars who, well, "fried" john wycliffe. part of his testimony i thought interesting was this rationale for making churches tax exempt:Today millions of these private “associations”–religious and charitable–are responsible for tens of millions of jobs and innumerable services that benefit our citizens at every level. packer, "talk to the all-church coordinating council," transcript, 18 may 1993, pp. such critics run the risk of losing friends, who may wonder what the critic says to others about them."in contrast to what you told me in private, your public statements concerning the toscano excommunication process and any participation of elder packer in it presented a far different picture. it could, and should have been avoided if elder oaks had originally told the truth .' i sincerely hope that arrangements can be made to publish my letter in your paper. in a highly unusual commentary written for that newspaper, published on october 21, 1993, he declared:"on october 12, 16, and 17, the 'salt lake tribune' gave prominent and extensive coverage to wire-service stories on cartoonist steve benson's charges that i 'lied' to an 'arizona republic' reporter in an interview on current controversies over church discipline. an aside, the fasts offering program here in the midwest is running a huge deficit (according to our leaders). i don't know how much tithing revenue the mormon church receives each year in the u."i would hope that you would feel it right to publicly set the record straight. a year later, lds president george albert smith wrote: ‘talked to pres. you have any final words as you are given your last wish for a cup of lime-green jello, sprinkled with carrots, before being summarily, excommunicatably executed by secret temple throat slit? when young jacob “suffered afflictions and much sorrow” from the actions of other family members, father lehi assured him, “thou knowest the greatness of god; and he shall consecrate thine afflictions for thy gain” (2 nephi 2:1–2). any translation which doesn’t represent that fact is a slap at them, and reveals yet another example of a mormon claim which undermines itself when seen in the light of other mormon claims. to speak the truth is to give an accurate account of the facts. for this arrogance from the pulpit, this pretended 'quietness' and this calm, patronising delivery style."'even though general authorities of the church are free to contact or respond to local leaders on any subject, i felt there may be some sensitivity about this request,' elder packer said. love how he introduced himself too: "i am elder dallin h. if it’s from byu, we know it’s right and we can trust it. facts, severed from their context, can convey an erroneous impression. these are the reasons why i opened myself back up to them again. i rememberhow starkly clean the top of oaks' desk was., now we have the civil rights issue of the century - rights for gay and lesbian people. oaks was less than truthful in some statements made concerning apostle boyd k. confession of mark hofmann makes it clear that oaks was way off base and that the news media were right all along.: "somebody has called me a liar and i don't like to (inaudible) to that on a charge like that."earlier this month, elder oaks spoke with an 'arizona republic' reporter about the recent string of disciplinary councils. so its okay to tell a lie, because at the moment of telling the lie, god will tell you its true, right? quality of life for the healthy is astronomically better in nearly every nation. "husbands should regularly tell their wives these four things:4) we can't afford it". the truth is constrained by other obligations, the outcome is not falsehood but silence for a reason."except, if you are brigham young, in which case you can have as many as 55 wives married to you in this life, and untold numbers sealed to you in the life hereafter. a year later, lds president george albert smith wrote: ‘talked to pres. oaks acknowledged that farms sometimes gets 'hyperactive' in trying to prove that the book of mormon is true. an aside, the fasts offering program here in the midwest is running a huge deficit (according to our leaders)."i testify of jesus christ, whom we serve, whose church this is. spouses who hope that divorce will resolve conflicts often find that it aggravates them, since the complexities that follow divorce—especially where there are children—generate new conflicts. to packer's admission of meeting with heinz, toscano said, "i knew all along that boyd packer was behind it. he had killed a hundred, he said, and now he must be going to hell because i had spoken of the lord’s commandment ‘thou shalt not kill. all of the scores of media stories on that subject apparently assume that the author of that letter used the word 'salamander' in the modern sense of a 'tailed amphibian. the personal effects are devestating and very painful to many exmormons. he said that if the church had at that time revealed it was in possession of mclellin's papers, the press would have made "a big brouhaha about it.’ in 1968, apostle benson also instructed byu students about ‘black marxists’ and ‘the communists and their black power fanatics. that option was negated, he said, when hofmann plea-bargained in july. the few who were willing to listen responded with something along the lines of "well, they couldn't foresee at that time what kind of threat would emerge with all of these evil gay people wanting to have committed relationships and equal rights. he condemned abuse and neglect and called abortion "a great evil. he told the reporter, 'so, that's all i know about that at this point.] brown officially endorsed civil rights for persons of all races that year. he's an apostle, and even though his talk contains numerous internal inconsistencies, that he is an apostle should be all that is required for us to not notice, i supppose. as well, while oaks' talk isn't specifically about the kjv, mormon defenses of its continued use often rely on the same kinds of arguments used by oaks for defending obsolete language in prayer. he's an apostle, and even though his talk contains numerous internal inconsistencies, that he is an apostle should be all that is required for us to not notice, i supppose. so on october 6, 1890 (140 days later), they issued an official "manifesto" disavowing polygamy, yet continued to secretly practice it." they have been involved in numerous legislative anti-gay-marriage campaigns, including the passage of california's prop 8 among others., i’d like to know (if we are to maintain the kind of “appropriate distance” to deity recommended by oaks and before him, by mcconkie), why gordon b. however, my son is my closest family member and i have to consider his needs in life first, above all else.) often times, silly comments lead to serious discussion where new insights are made. but since the church’s very claims to authority are based on claims about “the truth”, how can it fight against access to it, without legitimately arousing the gravest suspicion? packer who put it in similar words: “the gaining of a testimony is in the bearing of it."benson claimed that elder oaks told him a different story during their confidential discussions held two weeks earlier. lie is most effective when it can travel incognito in good company or when it can be so intermarried with the truth that we cannot determine its lineage.'ll give oaks' credit for this, though his talk is a carcrash - i don't imagine anyone being able to do better defending the indefensible than he does. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ ca girl writes:"did you know that gas take the month of july off work? noise from the supremacist boys: oaks' insulting performance in twisting lds racist history. for this arrogance from the pulpit, this pretended 'quietness' and this calm, patronising delivery style. that is what the lord intends for his young adult sons and daughters. the reasons, oaks said, were two-fold:First, the church had privately determined that the mclellin papers it possessed were not relevant to the police investigation. on sunday he announced he had requested his name be removed from the rolls of the mormon church. it read as follows:The church of jesus christ of latter-day saints. if man's laws don't affect god's laws, why stop polygamy? 1, elder oaks gave a carefully-worded, tape-recorded interview to 'the arizona republic,' where he was asked if elder packer was 'involved in any way' in the disciplining of paul toscano. it reduced the time men could spend with their children and made them baby-daddies instead of fathers. many seek to impress others and aspire to the honors of men by deliberately calling attention to themselves. the outcome and no matter how difficult your experiences, you have the promise that you will not be denied the blessings of eternal family relationships if you love the lord, keep his commandments, and just do the best you can. zenger was acquitted after his lawyer, andrew hamilton, argued to the jury (contrary to established english law) that there was no libel in publishing the truth. we cannot control and we are not responsible for the choices of others, even when they impact us so painfully. relying on his personal notes of our confidential conversations, he charged that i had 'lied in public' in my interview with the reporter and stated that unless i 'publicly set the record straight' by calling the reporter within 24 hours, he would do so himself. that prospect began with their mutual commitment to keep the commandments, stay active in their church attendance, scripture reading, and prayer, and to work on their own shortcomings. few years later (after hofmann had been bundled off to prison and prior to my meeting with oaks and maxwell in 1993), i again visited with oaks in salt lake city. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ the mormon church did its double-damndest to obstruct justice and prevent law enforcement investigators from doing their job in following the trail on the mark hofmann scandal--a trail that led embarrassingly back to the lds church itself. maxwell in maxwell's salt lake city church office, oaks offered his personal observations and assessments about mormonism's premier piece of canonized scripture. difficult question is whether we are morally responsible to tell the whole truth. or if you want to make room for the practices of joseph smith and brigham young shouldn't you be fighting for monogamous marriage, polygyny, and polyandry? i do not consider myself responsible for your decisions not to be fully honest. it means children who bring with them financial burdens, service burdens, care and worry burdens; but also it means the deepest and sweetest emotions of all. oaks on the role of women:"sisters, don’t fall for the worldly urging that women should emulate men in various masculine characteristics.: --"and i'm not either admitting or denying things that i, i was speaking there in a privileged relationship and i don't think that it's fair for steve, uh, nor is it fair for me"--. by the final night, he had surpassed all of the young, world-class athletes.: "before i talk with you about it, let me ask you a question"--. other than that, the mormons are absolutely correct in defending the "ancient order of marriage. had not arranged the interview and did not join the reporter in it, as i did not think it would be appropriate for me to do so."you further acknowledged that you later talked directly to elder packer and told him that you felt it was wrong and violated church disciplinary procedure for elder packer to have been in contact with president heinz. who view their contemporaries as competitors to be beaten rather than as brothers and sisters to be served often believe that others’ successes diminish their own. i have no doubt at all now that it was the right thing to do. yes, we documented every contact, every hour dh was looking for work! none of the eleven options for tax reform even mention (so far as i could see) the possibility of revoking 501(c)(3) status for churches or any other entity. you were provided with an opportunity to set the record straight completely. the things the inmates liked the most about this story were that the first two servants got the same reward and the lord didn’t compare them one with another. to speak before them at a banquet in his honor, however, oaks praises farms for what it is doing in defense of the book of mormon--and then caps it off by blessing them for it in the name of god.“in 1953, a first presidency secretary also informed a white mormon about the less-obvious extent of utah's racial segregation: ‘the l. because he was a newspaperman, we sought and he gave solemn assurances that our discussions would be confidential."elder oaks told students to emulate brigham young's inclusive attitude toward his fellowmen."those facts are as follows [the letter then covered ground already noted above, with these additional observations]:"on oct.: --"and i'm not either admitting or denying things that i, i was speaking there in a privileged relationship and i don't think that it's fair for steve, uh, nor is it fair for me"--. offered as an example the following story of a man that once wrote him a letter:“he explained that he had been a machine gunner during the korean war. i am a lawyer, and i hear something from a client. this is, as president packer said, “the only safe path to follow in life. caricatures are amusing, but they are often ugly and dishonest. the federal government was sending marshalls to arrest and jail men who practiced this form of marriage. it’s in the history written for college or institute students, sources written for quite mature students, but not every sunday school teacher that introduces people to a history is familiar with that. this she must do in behalf of her blood, her essence, of the stock of her caucasian race. mckay said, ‘the south knows how to handle them and they do not have any trouble, and the colored people are better off down there--[but] in california they are becoming very progressive and insolent in many cases. following its publication, oaks said the church decided to release the mclellin documents it had in its possession. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ in any case, it is interesting to note that on august 16, 1985, the mormon apostle dallin oaks tried to ease the fears of mormon educators with regard to the salamander letter by claiming that the words "white salamander" could be reconciled with joseph smith's statement about the appearance of the angel moroni:"another source of differences in the accounts of different witnesses is the different meanings that different persons attach to words. oaks to say that someone not kowtowing to the church's view of salvation leaves a family in a "house divided," with the "son divided against the father," etc. it allows us to become an extension of the lord’s love. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ the mormon church did its double-damndest to obstruct justice and prevent law enforcement investigators from doing their job in following the trail on the mark hofmann scandal--a trail that led embarrassingly back to the lds church itself. your gifts and talents, and your preparation now will help you to accomplish your divine mission—and each of us has one. family relationships wouldn't be impaired if family members who believe in the church's doctrine would mind their own business (something oaks doesn't want them to do). the best i can say is that we’re moving with the times, we’re getting more and more forthright, but we will never satisfy every complaint along that line and probably shouldn’t. i was hoping that the church had given up on this kind of talk long ago. you chose only to correct one of the three falsehoods. our class member was blessed by her friend’s exercise of the gift to weep, showing that she shared her sorrow, which made the burden a little lighter. oaks to byu-idaho women: your destiny is to be a wife and a mother in zion. oaks says in effect, "'thou' is formal" and "'thou' is informal". this time he was somewhat more willing to talk about the hofmann affair--specifically, why the church had not, even in the face of a law enforcement subpoena, produced the mclellin papers, which it had in its possession. in this regard, oaks told me that the church had unilaterally decided that police detectives didn't need what the lds church had in its possession because, he claimed, the papers that the church controlled were from mcclellin's earlier, believing days and not from his later apostate period. we sucked up and put up with the bad credit scores that ensued because of the timing of pay checks. these observations of a wise bishop with extensive experience in counseling members with marriage problems.(the preamble to the confederate constitution mentions sovereignty, the u. you may print material from this website for personal, family, church, or nonprofit educational purposes. the excoriation of homosexuals will then be recharacterized by mopologists as the 'talking as men' that dates back all the way to the ot." i answer, "because the mormon church doesn't leave me alone. it is time to lift the heel and start to heal. (he says, "in our day the english words thee, thou, thy, and thine are suitable for the language of prayer, not because of how they were used anciently but because they are currently obsolete in common english discourse". while there is any prospect of life, we seek healing again and again. in order to do this, we must also be willing to move out of our comfort zones—to change. likewise, 72 percent of salt lake city's hotels and 49 percent of its motels refused accommodations to african-americans that year.”for more than a century, utah restricted african-americans from patronizing white restaurants and hotels, prohibited them from public swimming pools, and required them to sit in the balconies of theaters. the whole point was to make it comprehensible, so as to neutralize the claims of priests - and mormon apostles - who in effect argue that the scriptures mean whatever they say they mean. and of course, silly comments sometimes turn out not to be so silly upon inspection.” in other words, she left that beautiful home knowing that she'd never come back to it again, but she still left it beautiful. they must try to disprove its historicity--or they seem to feel a necessity to do this--and in this they are unsuccessful because even the secular evidence, viewed in its entirety, is too complex for that.. department of health and human services has had to organize an office of research integrity, whose sole purpose is to try to maintain honesty and credibility in biomedical research by combating the plagiarism and outright fabrication of data by the occasional scientist who buckles under the competitive pressure to publish or perish. actually, the news media were claiming that the context of the letter showed that the "salamander" mentioned there referred to one of the "elemental spirits" of magic. oaks urged mormon parents to limit their children's extracurricular activities. relying on his personal notes of our confidential conversations, he charged that i had 'lied in public' in my interview with the reporter and stated that unless i 'publicly set the record straight' by calling the reporter within 24 hours, he would do so himself. oaks says that in prayer, “some languages have intimate or familiar pronouns? we know that children raised in a single-parent home after divorce have a much higher risk for drug and alcohol abuse, sexual promiscuity, poor school performance, and various kinds of victimization. also took his "battle of wounded me" to the brigham young university campus, where attention focused on keeping the hearts and minds of the rising generation in line. and i appreciate that and i appreciate the opportunity of being able to speak to you as a, on a professional basis and i, i must tell you that i make this phone call because it distresses me when somebody claims that i lie. dallin oaks is saying that twenty-somethings need to quit "hanging out" and start dating!: "and i assume that neither you nor the republic want to be used in steve's grievances against, and controversies with, his church"--. of this talk of law andamp; justice andamp; correction andamp; discipline seems like transparent tools of control andamp; oppression. and we know from scripture that each of us has come with at least one gift. but he let his other statements stand 'because i could defend those,' he said. such experience occurred three months ago when i was with a graduate student at a professional meeting. in 1947, the first presidency wrote that ‘the intermarriage of the negro and white races, [is] a concept which has heretofore been most repugnant to most normal-minded people from the ancient patriarchs till now. persons who make true statements out of an evil motive, such as those who seek to injure another, use the truth unrighteously.“after counselor clark's death in 1961, apostle ezra taft benson became the mormon hierarchy's strident voice against the national crusade for african-american civil rights.: we should follow the spirit in determining how much we shun disobedient children. he said, “excellence does not call attention to itself” (“the spirit of the tabernacle,” 26).“in 1963, utah ended its restrictions on interracial marriage, and counselor [hugh b. he had lied by omission and commission, but somehow had talked himself into believing he had done the right thing. with the ban on the priesthood being extended to blacks, the general population's morality has outdistanced lds thinking regarding homosexuality considerably. we'll grow it or get help elsewise if we find we are in need. please use the purity of your spirit, intellect and testimony to help us heal together."he said that if ezra taft benson were capable of managing the church today, his eldest grandson's plea would not have gone unheeded. oaks' conjecture concerning the real meaning of the word "salamander" certainly shows the lengths mormon apologists will go to try and explain away anything that challenges mormonism.] brown officially endorsed civil rights for persons of all races that year.”15 she was converted to the gospel before she ever opened the book."in summary, when i found that i could not defend the correctness of one brief sentence in a long interview, i immediately contacted the reporter and withdrew that sentence, doing so more than three days before the story was scheduled for publication. it was still there, but i'd missed it reading over the intro in the bookstore.?"the fact that something is true is not always a justification for communicating it.: "ok, well, then, i, i take that at face value. discussion of dallin oaks’ version of the “language of prayer” might take into consideration the language of the kjv, since mormon prayer language seems to be an effort to continue its form of speech., if your wife died, and you're an lds apostle, you can be sealed to another, much younger woman, so you'll get both of 'em in the eternities. and we should build the spiritual strength of our families by loving relationships family prayer, and scripture study. speech should rightfully be titled "the true order of lying--how to lie without really lying", by dallin oaks. even though i knew they would be disappointed, i did not think my family would shun me the way they did when i told them my thoughts about the church. if a condition that draws men and women into one of the ugliest and most debased of all physical performances is set and cannot be overcome, it would be a glaring exception to all moral law. hoax/oaks reportedly offered to quit the quorum of the twelve sunday, dec 28, 2008, at 09:04 am original author(s): steve benson topic: dallin h." ("grandson of president asks to be removed from lds church rolls," jennifer skordas, "salt lake tribune," 11 october 1993, sec. to endorse this warping is to insult the very kjv translators who the church claims were inspired to write what they did. due to rising political pressure, in 1904 a "second manifesto" was issued, even more officially disavowingpolygamy and threatening those who continued with excommunication. there was also a separate story about steve benson and his wife seeking to have their names removed from the records of the church. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ as i was reading through the gospel doctrine manual, lesson 6, i ran across this quote from dallin oaks.: "uh, is, are you involved in any kind of an effort that steve is now making to extort information from me--and i use the word 'extort,' uh"--., in effect, eventually you gain a perfect knowledge from god by routinely pretending in public that you already have that perfect knowledge! it is very different from dating…dating is pairing off to experience the kind of one-on-one association and temporary commitment that can lead to marriage in some rare and treasured cases. “testimony” comes through a “personal revelation” from god via the holy ghost and is as serious as any testimony offered in a court of law - perhaps more so, because god’s commandment specifically states that “thou shalt not bear false witness”. i found this interesting because many gas have told me that their missionary experience is often the only thing that keeps them going in the gospel. your destiny is to be a wife and a mother in zion, not a model and a streetwalker in babylon.“perhaps the most convincing book in justification of the south in denying to the negro race social equality with the white race is the one written by william benjamin smith, entitled the color line, a brief in behalf of the unborn, from which the following is a quotation:“'here, then, is laid bare the news of the whole matter: is the south justified in this absolute denial of social equality to the negro, no matter what his (personal) virtues or abilities or accomplishments?"benson said he had no hidden agenda to corner a church authority. and dallin oaks, whether he knows it or not, seems to be on the side of the bad guys; he seems very much to agree with uber-catholic sir thomas more, who once complained bitterly about the holy word of god being translated into the language of ploughboys - rather than left in the more exalted, reverential language of? it has been suggested that thee, thou, thy, and thine are simply holdovers from forms of address once used to signify respect for persons of higher rank. 5 months, i was told that they couldn't keep giving us food unless i went out and got a job with a consistent and constant paycheck (births were sporatic). oaks went off on how members shouldn’t write him letters about his talks. next went to the church-owned deseret news to air his grievances. if only oaks had told the truth, it would have been a lot shorter. we don't need to honor no stinkin' subpoenaoaks also admitted to me in personal conversation that the mormon church had purposely decided not to cooperate with the salt lake city police department's investigation of the mark hofmann murders, by refusing to honor a subpoena calling for the turnover to the slpd of the papers of william mcclellin. hoax/oaks reportedly offered to quit the quorum of the twelve. he said that if the mormon church had at that time revealed it was in possession of mclellin's papers, the press would have made "a big brouhaha about it. your request for confidentiality, i believe, has been superceded by the fact that you have lied in public, contrary to the facts as you know them, and that your hope of confidentiality rests on maintaining the deception. morning in far away africa, i was tutored by a young african girl who was willing to dare to do great things, dream big, move out of her comfort zone and go forward with full confidence relying on the strength of the lord. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ god has a plan- known and dispensed only through the lds church. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ as i was reading through the gospel doctrine manual, lesson 6, i ran across this quote from dallin oaks. as the lord’s judge, he will give counsel and perhaps even discipline that will lead toward healing. oaks, "religious freedom," transcript of speech delivered at brigham young university-idaho, rexburg, 13 october 2009). the church couldn't refuse medical services in church owned hospitals. Oaks: "Don't wait for happiness to be thrust upon you. and the scriptures warn us plainly what follows when we “aspire to the honors of men. seems to me that religion is riding on the coattails of the red cross and other truly charitable institutions here. we have some apostles and prophets on record as saying the holy ghost causes a burning in the bosom, but oaks on record saying it does no such thing! that is why peter admonishes all to “add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge. so, if, as oaks claims, we need some formal language with which to address god, why then does jesus, the great exemplar, address god using the very intimate term “abba”?" ("cartoonist says oaks lied to protect fellow apostle," vern anderson, by "associated press," in "salt lake tribune," 12 october 1993, sec. packer was out of his league (as well as out of bounds) when packer intervened in the excommmunication of paul toscano; that it was oaks'--not packer's--responsibility to handle matters of church discipline, as he (oaks) had been chosen to rewrite the rules in the church handbook of instructions; that, thanks to packer, toscano would probably sue the mormon church for violation of toscano's ecclesiastical rights; and that packer was ultimately a "grizzly bear" who could not be "stage managed. who dress immodestly are pornography to men tuesday, apr 5, 2005, at 08:52 am original author(s): anonymous topic: dallin h. truth was not a defense to seditious libel because the goal was to prevent and punish all condemnation of the government."speaking for a moment as one whose profession is advocacy, i suggest that if one is willing to acknowledge the importance of faith and the reality of a realm beyond human understanding, the case for the book of mormon is the stronger case to argue. watson (7)   · white and delightsome (11)   · wilford woodruff (6)   · william hamblin (11)   · william law (1)   · william schryver (5)   · william wines phelps (3)   · women and mormonism (86)   · word of wisdom (7)   · world congress of families (1) donate to help keep the mormoncurtain and mormon resignation websites up and running!"meanwhile, in phoenix, pulitzer prize-winning cartoonist steve benson expressed frustration over what he sees as high-ranking church officials twisting the truth and deceiving members. this commandment has been in place from the very beginning."oaks said he later talked with packer and told him he felt packer had violated procedure by meeting with heinz, noting that packer had no authority or responsibility in this area.'m very happy to be at even more peace than ever with my decision to leave the mormon church. think that the true and living church of jesus christ would teach good citizenship and obedience to civil law. i served way beyond what was asked of me within your church. does an mormon apologetic apostle like oaks regard not only the book of mormon, but also the water-carrying puppet organizations for the lds church whose mission it is to the mormon minions to promote the book of mormon so strenuously? she knew by the spirit that the book of mormon was a true record and she made the transition from living in a beautiful two-story rock home on a farm in upstate new york, to going with the saints to kirtland, missouri, nauvoo, and later traveling west. it is time to lift the heel and start to heal. i rememberhow starkly clean the top of oaks' desk was.

Divorce - Dallin H. Oaks

disappointing easter: midwest area conference monday, apr 13, 2009, at 07:35 am original author(s): anonymous topic: dallin h.: --"and, uh, i think his letter and the things he says in his letter, abuse that privileged relationship, uh, in a really, uh, well, i'll stop there. maxwell concurred, adding that the mclellin papers had been 'stuffed away somewhere' and the church did not realize it had them. i think he was telling some nice stories about widows and little boys in his trademark sing-songy voice. oaks said the book explained the proper context, the role of the church and the facts on the ground regarding the mclellin papers. they used all kinds of threats and manipulation to get me to go back to church. oaks], [t]he ancient order of marriage is the divinely sanctioned union, recognized by the state, between one man and one woman[."i understand your displeasure with the fact than an agreement of confidentiality was abrogated. or send home deacons if we can see their nipples through the white shirts?"second, elder oaks falsely claimed ignorance of whether elder packer conversed with president heinz. my meeting with oaks and maxwell, i specifically asked if packer had, in fact, been involved behind the scenes in the excommunication process against toscano. when my mom died and we were dressing her body, my dad took the opportunity as a missionary lesson and said, "if you go to the temple again, you will be able to see her again. however, there is a danger in assessing our spirituality using such a relative measure. scholars of family life tell us that the most important cause of the current decline in the well-being of children is the current weakening of marriage, because family instability decreases parental investment in children. quote is part of a talk delivered by oaks, attempting to explain how the church got fooled by mark hofmann, who cost the church thousands of dollars and the lives of two of its members."i withdrew one sentence i had spoken in a long interview, and i did so three days before the article was published because i realized when i saw the written transcript, that this single sentence was not 'truthful'(meaning 'accurate' or 'correct'). i was simply following joseph smith's example, by searching the truth of religion. far, oaks has argued that "thou" should be used because it is "dignified", even though as he explains, it wasn't ever actually "dignified" at all; insinuated then that it might be appropriate just because the meaning has changed, even though it hasn't where still used in regional dialect, and in fact has dropped entirely from se. two out of three unhappily married adults who avoided divorce reported being happily married five years later. how we never hear the brethren say, "and you young men, be sure never to play "shirts-n-skins" on the asphalt, as the sight of your bare chests may invoke impure thoughts in the minds of our sisters. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ for those who say polygamy is "behind us" or "not doctrinal" or a "blip of history" let me quote dallin oaks at a byu devotional, jan 29, 2002:"when i was 66, my wife june died of cancer. in sympathy with the mormon church's decision to buy these mclellin papers back, oaks noted that president joseph f., in his oaks-sanctioned book, "victims: the lds church and the mark hofmann case" (chicago, illinois: university of chicago press, 1992, p."(one wonders why the conflict between oaks' surprise over the packer-heinz meeting and packer's public statement that the twelve authorized that meeting.: "and now he, he has drawn in this letter to me, he's drawn these two things together"--. oaks said that the church made a conscious decision not to bring forward the mclellin papers during the preliminaries. source informed that that they (the source) had heard directly that oaks had to be talked out of resigning. the reader will remember that when he was speaking of the word "salamander," hofmann said: "at the time i chose it only because it was commonly used in folk magic. may you cease unhealthy comparison to others and delight in your individuality and uniqueness. he said that if the "universe" printed my reply, "the general authorities might shut us down.: "ok, well, then, i, i take that at face value. “'we affirm, then that the south is entirely right in thus keeping open at all times, at all hazards, and at all sacrifices an impassible social chasm between black and white. this would have been changed by the proposed equal rights amendment (e.: "in the course of doing that, i spoke to him confidentially and in a privileged relationship"--.); even at the same time they claimed that scriptures were the only word of god, they reserved all right to interpret that word of god; which in effect substituted them for that word of god itself, without acknowledging this was what was happening (and does that sound familiar? so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, i have gained beside them five talents more.: "no, i, i had no idea that he even did that. what's possible is that a stake president might think he had heard such a thing; nobody can dismiss that possibility . it comes right down to it, i am just hoping that there is something bigger, eternal, transcendent, and just bigger than me, and that love, mercy, truth and goodness are signs of his existence. it's telling to see what high mormon church leaders such as he believe and speak about their faith behind the curtain--as opposed to what they proclaim in front of the microphone. he is causing such bad pr for the church and for salt lake city. in other words, a person lies by concealing when he or she has a duty to reveal. to oaks' claim to me in our september 24, 1993, private meeting that packer had independently strayed outside approved channels of authority, packer insisted that, in fact, he had been advised by "the brethren" to meet with toscano's stake president. oaks on the absolute power of the gift of discernment."when we first married, i was working as a consultant for a publishing house based in boston. if the church keeps getting sued, it is probably not a "freedom of religion" issue. months earlier, packer had warned a gathering of lds bureaucrats that some mormons "influenced by social and political unrest are being caught up and led away" by "the gay-lesbian movement, the feminist movement, as well as the ever-present challenge from the so-called scholars or intellectuals. lord said unto him, well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, i will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord. we know that moses brought forth what’s called the pentateuch, and it is part of the great religious tradition of judaism and christianity. i remember how starkly clean the top of oaks' desk was. "by comparing these two things, it diminishes the real violence that african-americans experienced in the '60s, when they were struggling for equal rights. and that should settle the matter for all faithful latter-day saints. of our weaknesses with others’ talents or of our talents with those who are truly gifted can be discouraging and may decrease our sense of self-worth. the brethren felt i could not very well decline to see a stake president. wickman (1)   · larry echo hawk (1)   · lds church (19)   · lds church office building (9)   · lds official essays (22)   · lds social services (3)   · lgbt - and mormonism (44)   · lorenzo snow (1)   · louis c. according to my notes taken during our discussion, you acknowledged that elder packer met with president heinz prior to the rendering of judgment by the stake disciplinary council. it does not send a portion of the people to howl in torment for ever and ever . for oaks, truth, honesty and integrity are of little value. sad that the lds leadership must continually find ways to attack gay and lesbian families and individuals."benson also wrote that oaks 'further acknowledged that you later talked directly to elder packer and told him that you felt it was wrong and violated church disciplinary procedure for elder packer to have been in contact with president heinz. may his heart go out, not only in love, but in reconciliation, to those who have suffered from this abuse of ecclesiastical power. in effect, it is never enough to “believe” in mormonism, or to have “faith” in mormonism, worthy members are expected to gain a certainty of “knowledge” that mormonism is true.**oaks behind closed doors:Oaks acknowledged that farms sometimes gets "hyperactive" in trying to prove that the book of mormon is true.“with such beliefs,” writes quinn, “the lds first presidency did what it could to block national efforts for the civil rights of african-americans.”due to their international fame, anderson and bunche were exceptions to the mormon rules of race.'s missing is where the kid 'living in sin' says not, 'if you loved me you would accept me', but rather, 'who the hell are you to lecture me given some of the things you've done? left a message with brinkley-rogers, who returned the call that evening, reaching oaks at home through the church switchboard operator (cso). i thought it was the purpose of farms to keep apostles from making fools of themselves by, for example, making statements that anyone who's taken a freshman-level old testament or new testament survey course would laugh at. you added that you fully expected paul toscano 'to sue' the church over this breach of procedural authority. the book of job i cut quite a bit of slack in where that came from and how literal one takes it because its povenance is quite different than the provenance of the first five books of the old testament., in his oaks-sanctioned book, "victims: the lds church and the mark hofmann case" (chicago, illinois: university of chicago press, 1992, p. husband had a lot of relatives that were in nauvoo at that time., if you are brigham young, in which case you can have as many as 55 wives married to you in this life, and untold numbers sealed to you in the life hereafter."in short, readers need to be sensitive to the reality that historical and biographical facts can only contribute to understanding when they are communicated in context. i was surprised to see them there on a sunday, as he is very tbm and used to work at the cob [church office building] before he retired. he related his concerns on what happened after he had had one of the supreme spiritual experiences of all time. this bishop was an owner of a new string of stores - whole foods. can't listen to a prophet who buys false documents monday, aug 19, 2013, at 09:15 am original author(s): jod3:360 topic: dallin h. not only that, but by women letting men hang out and *gasp* feeding them (he called it subsidizing freeloaders) the the men won't "grow up" and start pairing off instead of just hangin out. any rate, he maintained, that interval was too narrow, so the church decided to wait until turley's book, 'victims,' was published in 1992. he will “lead [you] by the hand, and give [you] answers to your prayers”16 as you make wise transitions. kopischke (1)   · ex-mormon foundation (33)   · ex-mormon opinion - section 1 (35)   · ex-mormon opinion - section 10 (24)   · ex-mormon opinion - section 11 (25)   · ex-mormon opinion - section 12 (25)   · ex-mormon opinion - section 13 (25)   · ex-mormon opinion - section 14 (25)   · ex-mormon opinion - section 15 (25)   · ex-mormon opinion - section 16 (25)   · ex-mormon opinion - section 17 (25)   · ex-mormon opinion - section 18 (25)   · ex-mormon opinion - section 19 (26)   · ex-mormon opinion - section 2 (25)   · ex-mormon opinion - section 20 (24)   · ex-mormon opinion - section 21 (25)   · ex-mormon opinion - section 22 (24)   · ex-mormon opinion - section 23 (25)   · ex-mormon opinion - section 24 (28)   · ex-mormon opinion - section 3 (24)   · ex-mormon opinion - section 4 (24)   · ex-mormon opinion - section 5 (23)   · ex-mormon opinion - section 6 (24)   · ex-mormon opinion - section 7 (25)   · ex-mormon opinion - section 8 (24)   · ex-mormon opinion - section 9 (26)   · ex-mormonism section 1 (25)   · ex-mormonism section 10 (25)   · ex-mormonism section 11 (25)   · ex-mormonism section 12 (25)   · ex-mormonism section 13 (25)   · ex-mormonism section 14 (25)   · ex-mormonism section 15 (25)   · ex-mormonism section 16 (25)   · ex-mormonism section 17 (25)   · ex-mormonism section 18 (25)   · ex-mormonism section 19 (25)   · ex-mormonism section 2 (25)   · ex-mormonism section 20 (24)   · ex-mormonism section 21 (25)   · ex-mormonism section 22 (24)   · ex-mormonism section 23 (25)   · ex-mormonism section 24 (25)   · ex-mormonism section 25 (25)   · ex-mormonism section 26 (61)   · ex-mormonism section 3 (21)   · ex-mormonism section 4 (22)   · ex-mormonism section 5 (24)   · ex-mormonism section 6 (25)   · ex-mormonism section 7 (25)   · ex-mormonism section 8 (25)   · ex-mormonism section 9 (26)   · excommunication and courts of love (19)   · ezra taft benson (30)   · facial hair (6)   · fair / madd - apologetics (70)   · faith promoting rumors (11)   · farms (30)   · first vision (23)   · food storage (3)   · fundamentalist lds (17)   · general authorities (29)   · general conference (14)   · general news (5)   · george p. i think i’m not talking necessarily just about writing mormon history; i’m talking about george washington or any other case. firstly, your belief in your church is not "the law". also argued that the church only had between may and august of that year as the available interval in which to get the mclellin papers out. responded quickly, calling my home the same afternoon he received the fax, in an attempt to reach me. it appears that you have asked me not to publicly divulge our conversation in your hope that my initial agreement to remain silent would keep the accuracy of your public utterances from being challenged. our youngest daughter--six years old at the time--answered the phone, as my wife listened in on the other end., of course the leaders that were insisted that we would loose the house and be on the street in no time. many cases our interpretation of scriptural passages depends on which word or words we emphasize. (oaks needed to do his explaining to the person he had lied to in the interview, not to me). oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ the dalin h oakes talk. last summer, he criticized the faith's hierarchy for claiming his 94-year-old grandfather was still involved in important church decisions."a being that is able to live in fire is a good approximation of the description joseph smith gave of the angel moroni:." ("news reports distorted facts, elder oaks says," dallin oaks, the daily universe, 25 october 1993, p."benson said he was making his letter to oaks public because he was fed up with church leaders shading the truth. any rate, he maintained, that interval was too narrow, so the mormon church decided to wait until turley's book, "victims," was published in 1992. it is much more likely that we are actively and openly discrimminating against a specific group of people who have long endured our displeasure. the church opposed latin to english translations, at bottom, because it weakened their power - up until that time, the priests (obviously this is pre-church/state separation) had been the referees in the game of life, but the players themselves had little or no access to the "definitive" rule book, the bible. lies of public officials, like the lies of religious leaders, are also extremely damaging in the way they degrade the moral tone of the entire community.-of-context highlights:To be “true” includes appearing to be what we really are. would note that the doctrine and covenants states that those who are not married for time and all of eternity will be servants to those who are married in the next life. the american revolution, a free press was identified by revolutionary leaders as one of the elements of liberty that they sought to preserve. this bishop was an owner of a new string of stores - whole foods. anyone who teaches you to lie, must be a liar themselves. he knows your name, your successes and setbacks, your triumphs and defeats, your fears, your doubts, your hopes, your desires, your motivations, your thoughts, your words, and your actions. i'm envious of the loving, unconditional love and respect they show each other. assuming (as it turned out, naively) that oaks had come completely clean, i faxed him a letter the next day, which read:The church of jesus christ of latter-day saints. someone even suggested that some testimonies are better gained on the feet bearing them than on the knees praying for them."in his interview with the deseret news, benson said what elder oaks told him didn't square with what was said to the reporter. by church policy that is left entirely to local leaders., in an on-the-record interview with a newspaper reporter, oaks blatantly misrepresented the truth about packer's involvement in the excommunication of toscano who, among other things, had caught the disapproving eye of church apostles by suggesting that church members need not perpetuate a cult of personality by standing up when general authorities walked into the room. this same sister also admitted that she did not have a bad thought come into her head until about fifteen years ago, when she briefly entertained dirty thoughts at a grocery checkout line after seeing other women pick up sleazy magazines in the line and added them with to their groceries. was not immediately informed by the reporter of the details of the above conversation, being initially told only that oaks had called to clarify the record. claimed that at the time the mormon church brought them out, it realized (apparently, he suggested, for the first time) that they spoke positively and glowingly of the lds church. the edmunds act of 1882 made polygamy a felony, yet still it continued. oaks had not come close to coming clean, as i had hoped and expected he would.: --"and it was one of those things, which called to my attention, is inaccurate and i want to correct it. in fact, i myself have said a lot of stupid things on here., oaks was shown 17 parallels between the lives of the book of mormon prophet alma and the new testament apostle paul. he simply ends up declaring, as though hopefully to make the conundrums he gets himself into in this talk magically, instantly vanish:>>but the history of english usage is not the point. the first five books of the old testament i give as an example like the new testament. i was skeptical because of how much he hurt me and proved to me that my family really wasn't a family at all. marriage is tolerable (spencer kimball: "now, the brethren feel that it is not the wisest thing to cross racial lines in dating and marrying. spoke of the fun he had asking his son afterwards what day it was, knowing his son would always get it wrong because he had lost his short term memory. if we are content to simply be better than the world, comparing ourselves to its standards and practices instead of to the lord’s, we may pride ourselves on the widening gap between us and the world while at the same time being dangerously oblivious to the increasing distance between us and the standards of righteousness we have covenanted to keep. packer - instructs members to gain a testimony by giving it thursday, apr 17, 2008, at 09:03 am original author(s): sick of it topic: dallin h. it is also perfectly acceptable to divorce them if they don't take care of themselves, or expect you to take care of them. michael quinn (who happens to be gay) offers a devastatingly detailed account of the utah mormon church’s blatant anti-black plan-of-action bigotry. a marriage is dead and beyond hope of resuscitation, it is needful to have a means to end it. there was a very strong element of slavery to the church's policy. oaks on tuesday likened the post-proposition 8 backlash against mormons to the persecution blacks endured during the civil-rights struggle. i used to love it and it pained me to have it out of my life, even after it no longer represented any kind of truth for me. i was so sad about this recently, that i was considering letting them back into my life, even after the very hurtful ways they treated me, simply for being true to my own belief system. many who marry withhold full commitment, poised to flee at the first serious challenge., if you are joseph smith, in which case you can secretely practice polygamy to girls as young as 14, and also be married to women who are already married to other men. of all the aggressive means in the believer's playbook against a family member who is apostatizing, "shunning"--the action of purposefully ignoring someone, leaving them out of consideration--covers a lot of what would be done."initially, i was pleased to hear from the reporter that oaks had corrected himself. told me that the mormon church had discovered in mid-march of 1986 that it possessed some mclellin papers--and so publicly announced. if that is the meaning, i have never had a burning in the bosom. there was also a separate story about steve benson and his wife seeking to have their names removed from the records of the church. start with a variety of dates with a variety of young women, and when that phase yields a good prospect, proceed to courtship. after describing a long list of supposed social ills, he said that church members should "assume" that "children raised by parents of the same gender" are "disadvantaged" and "victimized" by this circumstance. no one would buy it but the most diehard fanatics."'i'm tired of playing this little game,' he said in a phone interview from his office at "the arizona republic. hospital here in salt lake city has a blood bank which does not contain any colored blood." when subsequently asked by the media about rumors that packer had worked behind the scenes to get toscano excommunicated, oaks claimed ignorance and denied that packer could ever do such a thing. we were in the ranks of the unemployed - well, out of his consistent and constant paychecks. the church opposed latin to english translations, at bottom, because it weakened their power - up until that time, the priests (obviously this is pre-church/state separation) had been the referees in the game of life, but the players themselves had little or no access to the "definitive" rule book, the bible. of what oaks had dished up for public consumption directly contradicted what he had told me in private. i absolutely did not instruct him to hold a disciplinary counsel and did not then, nor have i ever, directed any verdict. see, i grew up on a farm where we couldn't afford horses or tractors, and the whole time i was growing up, whenever the storms would roll in, i'd have to go out and round up the sheep. it extends beyond our temporary callings as presidents, counselors, secretaries, teachers, and so on. you will witness, and be a part of, miracles in these latter days. each of you came to the earth with gifts to help you accomplish your part. referring to packer, he said, 'you can't stage manage a grizzly bear."but in a serious tone, elder oaks, a member of the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints' council of the twelve, said he feels 'wounded' by an associated press story that he said dwelled on his admission that he made a statement he couldn't defend, and downplayed his efforts to promptly correct his unintentional error. if the thing itself is nonsense, it is no wonder defenses of it are as well. there was widespread use in all-white neighborhoods of utah's uniform real estate contract, form 30, which prohibited the purchaser of real estate and his/her heirs from reselling the property ‘to any person not of the caucasian race. a marathon is one thing that you cannot do virtually! bednar, “brigham young university–idaho: a disciple preparation center (dpc),” august 31, 2004. however, i did not want to deprive my baby of an extended family, so i was willing to have an open mind and heart about my family and give them another chance. further defended the church's refusal to provide its mclellin papers to law enforcement investigators on the grounds that the subpoena only requested mclellin documents that hofmann, not the church, was said to have possessed. you lied to the media about bkp's participation in the toscano excommunication."in an interview monday evening, oaks declined to confirm or deny most of benson's assertions about a pair of private interviews the church prophet's grandson had in september with oaks and elder neal maxwell, another member of the quorum of the twelve apostles, a body that advises the church's presidency. sometimes we are silent out of loyalty to those we love. apostles deceptively say one thing in public--and quite another in private. oaks: "disadvantages for children raised by couples of the same gender".’ a month later, during the meeting of the first presidency and quorum of the twelve apostles in the salt lake temple, ‘president clark called attention to the sentiment among many people in this country to the point that we should break down all racial lines, [and] as a result of which sentiment negro people have acquired an assertiveness that they never before possessed and in some cases have become impudent. seems to think that he is not responsible for what he says. in hindsight we should never have engaged in this practice. the church is not necessarily there for our present needs. i remained silent in the face of these lies, i would have been an accessory to oaks' falsifications. they obviously helped dallin out quite a bit to know that the salamander letter was a fradulent document created by mark hofmann before he endorsed it talking to mormon "educators. subtitled ‘white alternatives’, this book warned about the ‘well-defined plans for the establishment of a negro soviet dictatorship in the south. "what the gay and lesbian communities are fighting for, that is a civil-rights issue. he wants the church members to feel the necessity to "confront" their "loved one" who has left the tithing fold. would dallin oaks insist that we all start listening to the motab on wax cylinders or vinyl lp's, or wear burlap robes to church instead of navy business suits with red silk ties? oaks also informed me, curiously, that it was only later--when the lds church supposedly actually examined the papers in the mcclellin collection--that it realized the collection's contents were not germaine to the hofmann police investigation." accepting the book of mormon, oaks said, was ultimately a matter of faith.. the leveling effect of the women's movement has contributed to discourage dating. is none of anyone's business (no specific quote, just a general policy change). in awhile, however, they blurt out things in private that are probably weighing on their chests and which they feel they need to get out. would like to close by sharing with you a memory of some young women in africa when i last visited there. even then, support for polygamy continued so strong that apostles john w. and it's contrary to what i know of elder packer and the way he operates . 7 thanking him for having called brinkley-rogers to 'clarify your earlier statements." if he had the run of the world, i somehow don't expect that free speech would be thriving. that option was negated, he said, when hofmann plea-bargained in july. we may be free to disclose if we choose to do so, but there will be circumstances where commandments, covenants, or professional obligations require us to remain silent. hinckley described another kind of lack of context in his talk at october conference two years ago. that was in spite of the cult's teaching (and i was a devoted cult member at the time) that joseph smith was the greatest dude, next to jesus. elder packer is not the least bit inclined to shrink from saying things like in the talk you saw [to the all-church coordinating council, 18 may 1993]. people (often young people) to outright lie is obviously not a great issue to mormon leaders. it may cover unpleasantness for a time but, sooner or later, must melt, exposing that which was hidden., two years later, a new bishop, i was his wife's vt. the story of the english bible, the catholics are the bad guys. the lds church wants to maintain status quo:No marriages for gay and lesbian members. russell ballard from a speech ballard delivered in 2008 at brigham young university, oaks declared]: 'we follow jesus christ by adhering to god's law of marriage, which is marriage between one man and one woman. that’s an illustration of the fact that not everything that’s true is useful to be shared. oaks went off on how members shouldn’t write him letters about his talks. i suggest you read the entire speech since i have taken some of his remarks out of context below. mclellin was, as described by steven naifeh and gregory white smith in their book, "the mormon murders: a true story of greed, forgery, deceit, and death" [new york, new york: weidenfeld andamp; nicolson, 1988, p."when oaks chose to publicly dissemble, he violated my trust and that of the church at large." ("oaks: 'i've been a victim of double-decker deceit," dallin oaks, salt lake tribune, 21 october 1993, sec. and i think, “oh, what we're doing is easy compared to them. the reader will remember that when he was speaking of the word "salamander," hofmann said: "at the time i chose it only because it was commonly used in folk magic. i perused it, and there is some big talk about "twenty-something peter pans" who don't want to grow up."oaks declined to discuss what benson said took place in their private discussion."my heart goes out to all who have suffered from this painful sequence of events. it is no wonder the church was so angry at him." i would add my belief that the most fundamental legal and political objection to the proposed e. then indicated that through tithing we can qualify for all blessings the lord has for us. one can work to correct them by some other means, but don’t go about saying that they misbehaved when they were a youngster or whatever. one is more aware than your speaker today that you are not, in this gathering, listening to a general authority at a general conference. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ on nov 7, 2006, elder dallin oaks and his wife spoke at the brigham young universityidaho devotional. the application of this principle will, of course, vary according to the nature of a particular language, including the forms that were used when the scriptures were translated into that language.. she worked at a local big business, making what my dh made, married to a guy who worked for another big company making twice what my dh made, she only had two kids from a previous marriage. children raised by same gender parents will be disadvantaged, even victimized, by the societal attitude fostered by the lds church against same gender couples and parents.” when the couples he counseled did these things, repenting and working to save their marriages, this bishop reported that “healing was achieved 100 percent of the time. the reasons, oaks said, were two-fold:First, the mormon church had privately determined that the mclellin papers it possessed were not relevant to the police investigation. i would be an idiot to give them another chance.' his letter did not even hint that he thought further clarifications were necessary. did not have my office phone number but he had the reporter's, since i had given it to him. oaks' concerted effort to misrepresent the truth in that regard merely further exposes the intellectual and moral dishonesty of the lds church's highest leaders. firstly, your belief in your church is not "the law".: "and, and i, uh, [steve] also says some things in his letter which he may share with you, i don't know"--. class member hesitatingly raised her hand and then said quietly, “i can tell you about that. examined together, they point to a deliberate pattern of deception. entitled “prelude to the national ‘defense of marriage’ campaign: civil discrimination against feared or despised minorities,” it recounts the cold-hearted track record of the mormon church behind utah’s zion curtain in waging relentless racial war against the state's black population..Oaks said mclellin (who became disaffected from the church and eventually left it), had ransacked joseph smith's home while smith was incarcerated and taken several of smith's belongings. expressed concern that packer's involvement with heinz might lead toscano "to sue the church" over violation of his ecclesiastical procedural rights.“utah's racial discrimination did not occur by happenstance nor did it continue into modern times by accident. weirdest talk in modern gc history: dallin oaks' "language of prayer" tuesday, may 31, 2005, at 09:15 am original author(s): anonymous topic: dallin h. assuming (as it turned out, naively) that oaks had come completely clean, i faxed him a letter the next day, which read:The church of jesus christ of latter-day saints. do you know how many times i had to take our 3 ringed, 3 inch binder into the bishop's office? also that had received two talents came and said, lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, i have gained two other talents beside them." oaks then preceeded to lie about packer's involvement in toscano's ecclesiastical execution (on the record, no less) to a newspaper reporter during the public controversy surrounding the lds hierachy's ham-handed hanging of the "september six., now in my 40's, i am the opinion that perhaps gandhi is the greatest of them all (after all, if jesus did live, he doesn't qualify for the contest, on account of him being a god and all that). oaks had demanded that i not talk about the conversations we had about the toscano/packer affair. he spoke very softly and they didn't turn up the sound..Oaks said mclellin (who became disaffected from the mormon church and eventually left it), had ransacked joseph smith's home while smith was incarcerated and taken several of smith's belongings. now said porn star actually could make a persuasive case for heterosexual monogamy if she said something like, "i used to engage in lots of sexual behavior with lots of partners. this is a sensitive subject because it evokes such strong emotions from persons it has touched in different ways. compare this to elder eyring's talk, "remember: from a few years ago. first english translation of the bible was done by john wycliffe in the late 1300's (don't remember the exact year).: "uh (clears throat), when i met with steve benson"--., the people of the confederate states, each state acting in its sovereign and independent character, in order to form a permanent federal government, establish justice, insure domestic tranquillity, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity invoking the favor and guidance of almighty god do ordain and establish this constitution for the confederate states of america. of course he did not go into detail about why joseph felt it was necessary to destroy the printing press or whether the information the press was distributing was in anyway false or misleading. the media should make more complete disclosures, but latter-day saint readers should also be more sophisticated in their evaluation of what they read. this is the time that has been anticipated throughout eternity. he told the reporter, 'if elder packer is having any conversation with kerry heinz, it is outside the normal channel. however, a spirit of comparing and competing may be evidence of the sin of pride. oaks, a member of the mormon quorum of the twelve apostles, referred to "so-called same-gender marriage".'s a classic "some things that are true are not useful.(confederate constitution mentions guidance of god in the preamble, u. than ten years after the federal courts banned states from prohibiting interracial marriage, a member of a stake presidency told my wife that she should marry "her own kind". he had lied to a reporter about events which he had described to me in much different terms. they originate with prophets; so did the pentateuch, so did the book of mormon. i do not consider myself responsible for your decisions not to be fully honest. first english translation of the bible was done by john wycliffe in the late 1300's (don't remember the exact year). went to the press, laid out the entire story and submitted my letter of resignation from the mormon church. third, your assertion that for elder packer to have talked with president heinz goes against your knowledge of elder packer's modus operandi is contradicted by your admission to me that you knew that elder packer had talked to him and that you later talked with elder packer about it.--the utah mormon church’s advocacy of separate blood banks for whites and blacks in order to maintain the "purity" of white mormon blood--. i’m sorry, but can anyone but oaks clarify a talk given by oaks? "some young men and women are skipping church youth activities or are unavailable for family time in order to participate in soccer leagues or to pursue various entertainments. as i go down parley's street and read those inscriptions, i weep because i feel the spirit of those men and women.) while we lived in that ward, from that time on, i was inactive, refused to pay anything towards tithing, but craved the visits from my visiting teachers (we were never home-taught), and i never went back asking for help again either. following its publication, oaks said the church decided to release the mclellin documents it had in its possession. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ one of mormonusm's top (and arguably most malevolent) hierarchal henchmen, dallin h.

The Mormon Curtain - DALLIN H. OAKS

"in relation to history, i was speaking in that talk for the benefit of those that write history. you will not do any of it alone as you exercise your faith in jesus christ and you pray to him; he will be with you., now we have the civil rights issue of the century - rights for gay and lesbian people. tentmakers like paul - the greek, by the way, used by people whose native tongue wasn’t greek at all, but aramaic.: "and i'm a truthful man and i care for my integrity and, uh, and i, i take no, uh, no little, uh, concern for something like this. contrast, the couples who followed this bishop’s counsel and stayed together emerged with their marriages even stronger. ash (26)   · mitt romney (71)   · more good foundation (4)   · mormon celebrities (14)   · mormon church history (8)   · mormon church pr (13)   · mormon church propaganda (5)   · mormon classes (1)   · mormon doctrine (35)   · mormon funerals (12)   · mormon garments (20)   · mormon handcarts (12)   · mormon interpreter (4)   · mormon marriage exclusions (1)   · mormon membership (38)   · mormon missionaries (142)   · mormon money (73)   · mormon newsroom (5)   · mormon political issues (5)   · mormon racism (18)   · mormon temple ceremonies (38)   · mormon temple changes (15)   · mormon temples (116)   · mormon visitor centers (10)   · mormon wards and stake centers (1)   · mormonthink (13)   · mountain meadows massacre (21)   · murphy transcript (1)   · natalie r. he can’t get around that, without disavowing his main position, which he hasn’t done, that i know of. he condemned abuse and neglect and called abortion "a great evil. the new testament, for example, as is well known, wasn’t written in “formal, dignified greek” at all, but in koine greek, the greek used by fishermen, prostitutes, and. and so there is no way to avoid this criticism. i feel compelled to let you know the actions your words have caused in my life."a being that is able to live in fire is a good approximation of the description joseph smith gave of the angel moroni:. i was skeptical because of how much he hurt me and proved to me that my family really wasn't a family at all. that the negro is markedly inferior to the caucasian is proved both craniologically and by six thousand years of planet-wide experimentation; and that the commingling of inferior with superior must lower the higher is just as certain as that the half-sum of two and six is only four."elder oaks told students to emulate brigham young's inclusive attitude toward his fellowmen."oaks said he later talked with packer and told him he felt packer had violated procedure by meeting with heinz, noting that packer had no authority or responsibility in this area.“with such beliefs,” writes quinn, “the lds first presidency did what it could to block national efforts for the civil rights of african-americans. the church couldn't take byu transcripts from students who had earned credits."given these unfortunate circumstances, i approached 'student review,' hoping that fuller access to the facts would allow readers to make informed and intelligent judgments. speaking of those who eventually divorced, he said:“universally, every couple or individual said they recognized that divorce was not a good thing, but they all insisted that their situation was different. elder oaks then compared this person to one of five thousand that jesus fed, many of whom stopped following jesus after he stopped providing food, citing a scripture from the new testament to show that the church is there to provide for our eternal needs. however, the highest score on an exam does not necessarily indicate mastery of the material. byu commencement gems:"[oaks recognized] the challenging times facing graduates wars and rumors of wars, natural disasters, recession and the prospect of further financial disaster, values and standards being denied or cast aside as more people call evil good, and selfishness replacing service.' accepting the book of mormon, oaks said, was ultimately a matter of faith."first, by couching the packer-heinz meeting hypothetically, he falsely implied personal ignorance of whether it occurred.: "what i would like to know is the relationship between you and steve benson in this matter. 1 an 'arizona republic' reporter asked oaks if packer was 'involved in any way' in the disciplining of toscano. it’s true, but i’ll be disciplined professionally if i share it because it’s part of the attorney-client privilege. most mormon parents have a huge trail of hypocrisy behind them, of their own hideous mistakes, their shady business dealings, their own pettiness, their own pick-and-mixing of church doctrines, their own spiritual failures, their own betrayals of their own ideas and their children, their own shabby behaviour. think what is really pissing oaks of is the trend of religion becoming more and more marginalized, not because of some sort of reverse discrimination but because religion in general and mormonism specifically is failing to effectively compete in the public marketplace. he doesn't know how to work diplomatically with the gay and lesbian community and so he is resorting to demands for absolute legal protection under "freedom of religion". all of the scores of media stories on that subject apparently assume that the author of that letter used the word 'salamander' in the modern sense of a 'tailed amphibian. one woman, an official from the national institutes of health who administers research grants, pulled me aside from the group and said, “this was tremendous!, then the stake pres told us that we needed to sell.’ this world-famous black woman was not allowed to use the main entrance and lobby.. the meaning and significance of a "date" has changed in such a way as to price dating out of the market. all of the scores of media stories on that subject apparently assume that the author of that letter used the word salamander in the modern sense of a 'tailed amphibian. i believe it's all about having a testimony of jesus christ. oaks--the overblown, the underwhelming and the nonprincipled tuesday, feb 28, 2006, at 07:34 am original author(s): steve benson topic: dallin h.’ the salt lake city school district prohibited blacks from being teachers and from fulfilling student-teaching requirements of their university training."each of us has two distinct channels to god, the first is governance which is obedience to the leadership, and the second is personal testimony which gives us our knowledge in his existence. as joseph smith wrote later, "the first sight [of this personage] was as though the house was filled with consuming fire" (history of the church, 4:536). was an english-educated lawyer - and a slightly unusual lawyer. and yet my advisor seemed to be saying that if i was going to succeed as a graduate student, that’s exactly what i needed to do. note was made of the wording in alma's letters that is found in exactly the same language in paul's new testament story. however, until that year, every living prophet of the lds church since brigham young either actively opposed the civil rights of african-americans or passively endorsed the existing civil discriminations against them in utah. i have a saying on my message board at home.--the utah mormon church’s complicity in the entrenchment of racially discriminatory laws against utah blacks--. i can tell, it's going to be a lot of fun when i write up my review of this lesson next week. how can "usage" and its "history" not be the point, when his whole talk is about 500 year old words that he wants us to keep using, on grounds that they are "dignified", even though, as he also admits, they aren't? heck, even the niv would be better than the kjv for accuracy. as joseph smith wrote later, "the first sight [of this personage] was as though the house was filled with consuming fire" (history of the church, 4:536). one study found “no evidence that divorce or separation typically made adults happier than staying in an unhappy marriage. to packer as the source of these headaches, a frustrated oaks told me, "you can't stage manage a grizzly bear. a family is supposed to stick together, through good and hard times and no matter what the individual members' beliefs are or aren't. he said they were written by mclellin in his earlier missionary years of church service.: "i assume, i take the arizona republic at, at face value. i had 3 by that time and had just realized i was too far along with #4 to do anything but have another baby! your talk, you claimed that a parent who keeps loving a child unconditionally, when that child is not "obeying the law", knows nothing of love."profit" / "apostate" oaks to mormons in eight states: you were warned; you're on your own tuesday, apr 14, 2009, at 09:16 am original author(s): troubled wife topic: dallin h."except, if you are joseph smith, in which case you can secretly practice polygamy to girls as young as 14, and also be married to women who are already married to other men. benson would not say why he had a private talk with elder oaks. you have attempted to hide the truth of joseph smith's polygamy by limiting the influence of historical books. didn't hear back from oaks, except when i read what he was now saying to the press. as sister parkin suggested, we can pray, “help me to be the answer to someone’s prayer today” (“personal ministry,” 6)."benson claimed that elder oaks told him a different story during their confidential discussions held two weeks earlier.' he insists that other challenged statements he made 'required no correction. the new testament, for example, as is well known, wasn’t written in “formal, dignified greek” at all, but in koine greek, the greek used by fishermen, prostitutes, and. oaks started off by referring to a letter from someone who had requested their name be removed from the records of the church. would transfer from states to the federal government much of the power to deal with domestic relations, and further shift much law-making authority from locally elected legislators to nonelected federal judges. i find this instruction to the members of your church to be hurtful." if he had the run of the world, i somehow don't expect that free speech would be thriving. collection, contrary to mark hofmann's claims, was eventually determined not to exist. the bottom of the barrister's barrelthis is the man--dallin oaks--whom the lds church picks for the quorum of the twelve apostles as its premier legal beagle. oaks said the church was concerned the papers mclellin had purloined would turn out to be very negative and reflect poorly on the church. oaks said, of course, was that he is married to two living women at the same time tuesday, apr 22, 2008, at 09:03 am original author(s): steve benson topic: dallin h."in contrast to what you told me in private, your public statements concerning the toscano excommunication process and any participation of elder packer in it presented a far different picture. he put the tape into the rental car cassette deck and pushed the "play" button. modern and ancient literature contain many examples of this usage. made it very clear that the church welfare program was to be used as a last resort. five of them--one who was disfellowshipped and four who were excommunicated--said they were disciplined for apostasy and are victims of an orchestrated purge. of this talk of law and justice and correction and discipline seems like transparent tools of control and oppression. do you know how many times i had to take our 3 ringed, 3 inch binder into the bishop's office?: "i think his notes are quite self-serving, but that's, that's simply my, my perspective. oaks takes a swat at those whose names were removed, other interesting tidbits from 2013 midwest area conference. while i disagree with him in terms of what he thinks those laws should ultimately be, i respect and applaud his statement that the federal government should not be dictating such things to the states, especially in the form of a constitutional amendment. he is being tricky because it really is not free exercise of religion that is weakening but the practice of religion itself that is weakening. both of these kinds of special words are appropriately used in offering prayers in other languages because they communicate the desired feelings of love, respect, reverence, or closeness. it must be 'no'"–'i have no knowledge of whether he did.: "but i do wish to withdraw a sentence which, as i read it on the transcript, is inaccurate. invoke his blessings upon you, in the name of jesus christ, amen. you make any mistakes, you have not been following hf's plan. but oaks was worried about it still, and mentioned it in his later comments. but the important thing was that i could recognize that this sentence was not correct. it only requires a man and a woman committed to strive together toward perfection. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ on august 16, 1985, apostle dallin oaks tried to ease the fears of mormon educators with regard to the salamander letter by claiming that the words "white salamander" could be reconciled with joseph smith's statement about the appearance of the angel moroni:"another source of differences in the accounts of different witnesses is the different meanings that different persons attach to words. there was another reason for opening the door to my family again: i loved them unconditionally. let loose with information about his participation in the efforts to club and then conceal the ecclesiastical mugging of toscano in private conversations i had with oaks and maxwell, in maxwell's downtown salt lake city church office during september 1993."toscano, who is appealing his excommunication, said he loves the church, but doesn't confuse it with 'individual leaders who are kind of running amok in a vacuum. benson said he also warned that if the apostle did not 'set the record straight' he would no longer feel obligated to keep their discussion confidential. maxwell concurred, adding that the mclellin papers had been "stuffed away somewhere" and the church did not realize it had them.“the truth”, in the end, does not matter - only “the church”. none of the oakster's listeners bothered to realize that someone who witholds truth because it might not be "faith-promoting" are also engaging in deception. even after the us supreme court told the faith-based coalition defending prop 8 that they had no standing (meaning: this doesn't affect you), they've continued to try to legislate their religious beliefs onto others. strongly urge you and those who advise you to face up to the reality that for most marriage problems, the remedy is not divorce but repentance. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ here's another juicy one from gc, as reported in today's trib:Apostle dallin h. on sunday, benson called this paper's managing editor at his home and requested the opportunity to respond to oaks' letter. oaks' unsuccessful rewrite of the actual mormon church teaching and practice of "celestialized" plural marriage. it isn’t just one leader, it’s the entire mormon system. was excommunicated from the mormon church on september 19, 1993, "for writing and speaking publicly about church doctrine, feminism, the state of the faith's leadership and other issues. weakening of religion (not his red herring religious freedom) is attributed not to moral relativisim but to the morality of people putting people ahead of religious institutions. noise from the supremacist boys: oaks' insulting performance in twisting lds racist history wednesday, oct 14, 2009, at 09:09 am original author(s): steve benson topic: dallin h. in this talk, oaks notes that the meanings of words change over time, as though to insinuate that "thou" had."in view of all this, and as a matter of intellectual evaluation, why all the excitement in the media, and why the apparent hand-wringing among those who profess friendship or membership in the church? shouldn't those be some of the christian virtues that the lds church embraces and promotes? oaks tells two different stories about farms friday, oct 20, 2006, at 07:06 am original author(s): sourcerer topic: dallin h. you scroll down to the heading "inspiration," then look at the last paragraph of item 3, you will read:"the particular powers that are reserved to the states are part of the inspiration. on october 16, 1993, the following article appeared:"sitting in his office in the lds church administration building, elder dallin h. 10 letter, i promised them i would not speak on the record about the contents of that meeting. above has been a detailed and extensive account of events involving the toscano-packer-heinz-oaks affair. choosing to leave the mormon faith was a very difficult decision for me. the cover letter read:Re: publishing the attached letter in student review. but pres news room will take the vague dive--'we don't know why god kept religious inclusion and privileges from homosexuals previously, but that is now in the past."when you asked that i keep our conversation confidential, i assumed that anything you might subsequently say for the record on the matter would be at least honest, if not complete. oaks on her first months of marriage to elder oaks. a 1992 ensign article, constitutional scholar, former law professor, former utah supreme court justice and (since 1984) lds apostle dallin oaks explained that one of the key, inspired points of the us constitution was the balance of powers between the federal government and the states. oaks of the quorum of the twelve apostles of the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints..when there is no duty to reveal all and when one has not made an affirmative statement implying that all has been revealed, it is simply incorrect to equate silence with lying. parents install alarms to warn if their household is threatened by smoke or carbon monoxide. it had long been rumored,' wrote naifeh and smith, 'that mclellin, who kept the minutes at early meetings of the twelve, had taken with him a pirate's chest full of papers, letters and journals, all of it incriminating, with which to destroy the church. at the time hoffman was not happy with jerald over this. you lied to the media about bkp's participation in the toscano excommunication. there will definitely be boats of guilt heaped upon anyone who asks for any help. i speak to married members, especially to any who may be considering divorce. i told myself that if two of us could hang in there, we could hold it together.. and he was even adamant as to whom we should sell our house to! in so doing, i feel you violated the trust and faith between not only you and me, but between the church leadership and the members at large. just like last conference, i'm not buying into this shit. the trouble is, oaks had told me that the mormon church already was aware of the collection's contents when it refused to cooperate with the subpoena--because it had concluded they were not relevant to the hofmann investigation and therefore off-limits to the police for purposes of their criminal probe. rather than agitate oaks even more, however, i tried a softer, more conciliatory approach--even as i again chided him for refusing to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help him god. i think oak's message (subliminal) is that the longer these young people wait to get hitched, the more prone they are to. oaks couches the tbm compulsion in gentle terms in his conclusion, but he advances his argument with terms like "division" in the home and the inevitability ("after all we can do") of "impairing" our family relationships. oaks' unsuccessful rewrite of the actual mormon church teaching and practice of "celestialized" plural marriage wednesday, dec 5, 2012, at 09:14 am original author(s): steve benson topic: dallin h."on saturday, the 'daily herald' printed, on the front page, the complete text of a letter from oaks explaining his position and actions on the matters."given these unfortunate circumstances, i approached 'student review,' hoping that fuller access to the facts would allow readers to make informed and intelligent judgments. it’s in the history written for college or institute students, sources written for quite mature students, but not every sunday school teacher that introduces people to a history is familiar with that. 10 letter, i promised them i would not speak on the record about the contents of that meeting. but then you would have to condemn polygamy along with the prophets who supported it. as women's options have increased and some women have become more aggressive, some men have become reluctant to take traditional male initiatives, such as asking for dates, lest they be thought to qualify for the dreaded label "male chauvinist. so, that's all i know about that at this point." friday, may 4, 2012, at 09:12 am original author(s): fetal deity topic: dallin h. oaks blames not turning over subpoenaed evidence in hofmann case on ga vacation schedule sunday, jul 11, 2010, at 09:09 am original author(s): steve benson topic: dallin h. some languages have intimate or familiar pronouns and verbs used only in addressing family and very close friends.: how does it make sense to say that the “special language of prayer follows different forms in different languages, but the principle is always the same”?’ therefore, african-americans were denied equal access to the lds church's hotel in order ‘to preserve the purity of the race that is entitled to hold the priesthood.("benson responds to oaks' letter," in "the daily herald," 26 october 1993, sec., they cited the way it would have changed various legal rules having to do with the family, a result they characterized as "a moral rather than a legal issue."my duty as a member of the council of the twelve is to protect what is most unique about the lds church, namely the authority of priesthood, testimony regarding the restoration of the gospel, and the divine mission of the savior. will mention just one other principle related to academic and professional competition. its authenticity depends, as it says, on a witness of the holy spirit. maxwell) i had closed-door conversations in the church administration building about a wide range of topics. few years later (after hofmann had been bundled off to prison and prior to me meeting with oaks and maxwell in 1993), i again visited with oaks in salt lake city. the first presidency explained this racial exclusion as simply ‘the practice of the hotel. so instead of talking to you about marriage and family, i am going to start on a more elementary level. if the tbms just got along with their own "happiness"--not letting it be contingent on re-activating or baptizing "wayward" family members--then there would be no problem. tricky sob is trying to tell me that the obedience to the leadership is just as valid a way to god as my own personal testimony.." [in other words, the world is no different today than it was 4,500 years ago when a worldwide flood and dinosaurs threatened to extinguish humanity! may you be faithful in your church assignments and in your individual, personalized ministries—your own divine missions—using your unique blend of talents and spiritual gifts to “bless other people in a quiet, unassuming way. if that were so (and it is not), it would stand out as a strange and peculiar exception, one that can be applied to none other of the kinds of mischief that relate to the power of procreation. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ it is really up to the bishop as to how much help you can get from the wards, and bishops are under a lot of pressure from the higher ups! has anyone gotten into a comfort zone yet in these beginning weeks at byu-idaho?. we had just bought a house, which because of the number of kids we had (6) we were actually saving 0/mo! is far more significant than the large and unique celebration of one sabbath per year. 5 months, i was told that they couldn't keep giving us food unless i went out and got a job with a consistent and constant paycheck (births were sporatic). and i feel pretty sure that oaks' would defend the continued use of the kjv as staunchly (and as unconvincingly) as he does "the language of prayer".”internationally renowned singer marian anderson endured this racial discrimination in utah. the church couldn't take byu transcripts from students who had earned credits. (to be sure, oaks had himself told me personally in private conversations that i had with him and fellow apostle neal a. they did come through, it took 3 months, but they did finally come through. accompanying letter to the editor read, in part, as follows:"on october 25, the 'daily universe,' reportedly acting on a request from the office of the first presidency, published an article by elder dallin oaks, claiming recent news reports had falsely accused him of lying about elder boyd k. **everything** may be sacrificed in order to maintain the integrity of those essential facts."one wonders why so many writers neglected to reveal to their readers that there is another meaning of 'salamander,' which may even have been the primary meaning in this context in the 1820s.: "he compares what i said to him in a confidential setting, relating to church issues, with a transcript of the interview that i had with you"--. and, don't go out on the internet to look, either, you losers.: "no, i, i had no idea that he even did that."following benson's resignation from the lds church, he made charges that lds apostle dallin h.” they had been very talkative but suddenly the room became silent. and the 0 that we had been paying was finally breaking down and lying to a new landlord and saying we only had 3 kids! they don't get to hear his first words or see his first steps. is usa-educted lawyer, a justice of the utah supreme court - and unfortunately, a slightly bent lawyer, actually the worst type. he wants them being confrontational and chastising with the non-believers in their families. a man may have a blemish on his cheek and still have a face of beauty and strength, but if the blemish is emphasized unduly in relation to his other features, the portrait is lacking in integrity. do the highest quality work of which you are capable, sufficient to “impress the right people,” requires compliance with president hinckley’s counsel to get “all the education you can” (“prophet’s counsel,” 4). the end, oaks, with a note of resignation in his voice, said of packer, "you can't stage manage a grizzly bear. maybe even better in my mind is richmond lattimore’s translation of the new testament. and the sunday school teacher that gives “brother jones” his understanding of church history may be inadequately informed and may not reveal something which the church has published. i wasn't sure how to reconcile this with importance placed on the first vision. but neither the collection itself, nor any part of it, had ever surfaced"). normal converstation among honest adults, the appropriate term for this kind of schizoid behavior on oaks' part is: "lying hypocrite. thus, if mormon enigma reveals information that is detrimental to the reputation of joseph smith, then it is necessary to try to limit its influence and that of its authors."i have done so because i see so many people in the church hurting under the crushing heel of ecclesiastical abuse. virginia: "under our constitution, the freedom to marry, or not to marry, a person of another race resides with the individual and cannot be infringed by the state. case was the church policy that black men could not hold the priesthood, marry in the temple or hold other church callings (except for boy scout leader). lifferth: a very nice lady who spoke about growing up in ames, iowa and other warm fuzzies that warmed up local members. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ god has a plan- known andamp; dispensed only through the lds church., we must be willing to move out of our comfort zones."in that meeting, i asked oaks if kerry heinz, toscano's stake president, had any contact with boyd k.- apostle dallin oaks, footnote 28, inside the mind of joseph smith: psychobiography and the book of mormon, introduction p. when a client, who had committed an offence (criminal or civil), asked gandhi to defend him in court, gandhi would always counsel the client to plead guilty and accept the consequences. the few who were willing to listen responded with something along the lines of "well, they couldn't foresee at that time what kind of threat would emerge with all of these evil gay people wanting to have committed relationships and equal rights. i know many of you here know that is true too because he has done that for you. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ on september 8, 1998, mormon church president, prophet, seer and all-around present-day designated revelator/doctrinal determinator gordon b. and then they walked the distance that it took for them to get to the church by nine o'clock. gather your courage and look for someone to pair off with."oaks' answer contained several clear-cut falsehoods which point to a larger pattern of deception. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ i'm a big fan of everyone's right to say stupid things. of the example of handcart pioneers as examples for fighting the tide of gay marriage really elder oaks?“bless[ing] other people in a quiet, unassuming way” is required of all of us who have covenanted “to bear one another’s burdens, that they may be light; yea, and are willing to mourn with those that mourn; yea, and comfort those that stand in need of comfort” (mosiah 18:8–9)., the church did have in its possession certain mclellin papers, as admitted by richard e. but he let his other statements stand 'because i could defend those,' he said. afterward, protests, including several near lds temples, erupted along with boycotts of business owners who donated to prop 8 and even some vandalism of lds meetinghouses. i am not saying that women should not be doctors or lawyers or any particular occupation that fits their circumstances.: --"then it's, then it's much easier for me to (inaudible) my problems. i’m sorry, but can anyone but oaks clarify a talk given by oaks? facts, severed from their context, can convey an erroneous impression. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ dallin oaks spoke yesterday on the constitution:"whatever the merits of current controversies over the laws of marriage . history would have it, toscano's outspoken support of independent thinking and his public willingness to defy mormon authority ultimately led to toscano's excommunication--followed by oaks' effort to bury and lie about the details. 11, steve benson sent a copy of his 'personal and confidential' letters of oct. i am finally free of the guilt i had in keeping my son from my family. it is better for a church leader to be occasionally disappointed than to be constantly suspicious. elder bednar has referred to a university adjacent to a temple as a “disciple preparation center. gandhi thursday, may 4, 2006, at 08:06 am original author(s): grey matter topic: dallin h. he is also saying is goddamnit i don't want to be within 1 million miles of our tax status being messed with! i think i’m not talking necessarily just about writing mormon history; i’m talking about george washington or any other case. some even refer to a first marriage as a “starter marriage,” like a small home one uses for a while before moving on. if it is true that different languages use either the formal or informal in addressing god, and then he says that that's appropriate, on what grounds is he arguing that in english, we shouldn't use "you"? ummmm, we were paying 0 less than renting because of the number of kids we had. one would think that the preaching of such a doctrinal belief would be protected by the constitutional guarantee of the free exercise of religion, to say nothing of the guarantee of free speech."in view of all this, and as a matter of intellectual evaluation, why all the excitement in the media, and why the apparent hand-wringing among those who profess friendship or membership in the church? parents install alarms to warn if their household is threatened by smoke or carbon monoxide. seems to me that religion is riding on the coattails of the red cross and other truly charitable institutions here. as elder nelson taught me in that fireside long ago, and as president packer taught in general conference, excellence will be obvious to those who need to be impressed. (dallin oaks married june dixon in 1952, who passed away in 1998. did not have my office phone number but he had the reporter's, since i had given it to him. was immediately aware of the bind that oaks had put me in. and another problem is there are a lot of things that the church has written about that the members haven’t read. all of the scores of media stories on that subject apparently assume that the author of that letter used the word 'salamander' in the modern sense of a 'tailed amphibian. oaks, when you so unconvincingly and with such glaring intellectual dishonesty seek sympathy by attempting, as a slippery-tongued mormon misfit, to align your historically racist church with “the well-known and widely condemned voter-intimidation of blacks [in this country]," why don’t you go one step further and inform americans everywhere of the mormon church’s historic intimidation of african-americans? and that if you have a testimony of jesus christ, and his restored gospel, you will be able to make any of life's transitions. 7 thanking him for having called brinkley-rogers to 'clarify your earlier statements. oaks on why a federal marriage amendment is a bad idea. maxwell noted that one reason oaks had been brought into the quorum of the twelve was to help rewrite the manual on church disciplinary procedure." however, consider what happened when us law conflicted with their position.“during this era of utah's racial segregation, the first presidency . "an open letter" dated october 15, 1993, i wrote:"given the events of recent days, i feel it important to communicate to you the reasons why i believed it necessary to speak openly about our conversations concerning the packer-heinz-toscano affair."yet, even in your subsequent revision, you did not correct what i believe to have been other deliberate misrepresentations. there should be dating, followed by careful and thoughtful and thorough courtship. what some members of the church may see or construe as "self-destructive" behavior could be someone just following his or her conscience to believe what seems right for that person. but if he did, and if he gave a directed verdict . oaks blames not turning over subpoenaed evidence in hofmann case on ga vacation schedule. and of course that means you must determine, and i mean seriously determine just what results you really want—really! these children are "disadvantaged" it is only because of the actions and attitudes of individuals, leaders and organizations who have treated these families and less than other families in america. the first thing out of his mouth was to sell the house!"oaks did not retract other statements in the interview with brinkley-rogers that benson had alleged--and oaks denies--were false or deliberately misleading. oaks, when you so unconvincingly and with such glaring intellectual dishonesty seek sympathy by attempting, as a slippery-tongued mormon misfit, to align your historically racist church with “the well-known and widely condemned voter-intimidation of blacks [in this country]," why don’t you go one step further and inform americans everywhere of the mormon church’s historic intimidation of african-americans?. the moment the bar of absolute seperation is thrown down in the south, that moment the bloom of her spirit is blighted forever,. i can't help but notice how much the whole thing looks like a mini-me senate or congress, trying to ape the look of 'power' and 'authority' of government bodies, the same attempt to look very serious while dispensing quite shallow and hackneyed responses that utterly fail to address to the human existential situation as it actually is globally, rather than simply as it is in some kind of 50's utah sunday school valley. notes that “president young's published sermon gave official encouragement for mormons to kill black men,” adding that, in quinn’s opinion, young was therefore “morally responsible for this 1866 murder. don’t know the answers to any of these questions. 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Elder Dallin H. Oaks: "Don't wait for happiness to be thrust upon you

influenced by their own parents’ divorce or by popular notions that marriage is a ball and chain that prevents personal fulfillment, some young people shun marriage. freedom "undergirds the origin and existence of this country and is the dominating civil liberty. is hurting humanity, reaping a wind-fall of cash from unwitting believers and returning a dollar each back to society.: "let me put the robe on and go in another room, where i can be comfortable. that meaning, which is listed second in a current edition of webster's new world dictionary, is "a spirit supposed to live in fire" (2d college ed. the reasons, oaks said, were two-fold:First, the mormon church had privately determined that the mclellin papers it possessed were not relevant to the police investigation. few years later (after hofmann had been bundled off to prison and prior to my meeting with oaks and maxwell in 1993), i again visited with oaks in salt lake city. someone even suggested that some testimonies are better gained on the feet bearing them than on the knees praying for them. and young woman, please understand that if you dress immodestly you are magnifying this problem by becoming pornography to some of the men who see you.**oaks behind closed doors:In his ultimate assessment of evidentiary proof concerning the book of mormon, oaks admitted that the arguments for and against the book were "equal," with neither side being able to prove whether the book of mormon was true or untrue. civil laws will have to be crafted to protect these citizens. was told by a "universe" faculty adviser that oaks' version of events had been published in the "universe" at the direct request of the first presidency."i ran into a friend and her husband at the fireworks on the fourth. told me he was "distressed and astonished" over packer's decision to meet with heinz, even though he said heinz was the one who had called packer and asked "for the meeting. help on that inquiry, let's look at oaks' telling flip-flops. for that matter, it's best not to tell anyone except your good buddies, because then they might think twice about your apostolic calling.: "but when i received this letter, which i did this afternoon about 5 o'clock"--. oaks had demanded that i not talk about the conversations we had about the toscano/packer affair. a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them. all priestly opinions had to be accepted just on faith as being accurate expressions of what the bible itself said. in her 1300 sf house with 4 other kids and an abusive husband! it was revolutionary because it was a translation of the scriptures into the language of the common man; and as such, was a total karate kick in the face of the church.: --"so you'll understand why i need to ask that before i speak about this.?"in view of all this, and as a matter of intellectual evaluation, why all the excitement in the media, and why the apparent hand-wringing among those who profess friendship with or membership in the church? then mentioned how we cannot hang our faith on visits from heavenly messengers, noting how laman and lemuel turned away after seeing an angel."in the interview, elder oaks said he had no knowledge of whether elder packer met with the stake president. of what oaks had dished up for public consumption directly contradicted what he had told me in private. for 60 years the lds church engaged in thousands of polygamous marriages, none of which was ever legal. however, when my friends and family turned away from me because of my beliefs, my previous notions about the people within the church were shattered." he even refers to himself with the silly title and middle initial. he was the first competitor to cross the finish line and he set a new course record…today, the ‘young-shuffle’ has been adopted by ultra-marathon runners because it is considered more energy-efficient. two weeks after we moved into our new house (a hud repo with lots of work needed), dh's job unexpectedly lost funding. that mormons, like african-americans, have been the victims of “aggressive intimidation” and "violence," oaks declared that such incidents were “anti-democratic” in nature and comparable to “the well-known and widely condemned voter-intimidation of blacks in the south that produced corrective federal civil-rights legislation. since mormons claim to have cornered the market on perfect families, this fallacy is even more difficult to digest." ("cracks in the temple: mormon unity in peril," paul brinkley-rogers, in "the arizona republic," 10 october 1993, sec." or maybe they should reprimand young men who "adjust" themselves in the church hall?: "and i assume that you don't want to get involved with steve's controversies with his church."after receiving the letter, elder oaks said, he reviewed the transcript of his interview with the reporter and found he couldn't defend his comment about having no knowledge of packer meeting with heinz. huntington married and while living in nauvoo she was expecting a baby. some languages have intimate or familiar pronouns and verbs used only in addressing family and very close friends. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ it is really up to the bishop as to how much help you can get from the wards, and bishops are under a lot of pressure from the higher ups!: --"that are rather considerable, uh, uh, controversy with his church. i was hoping that the church had given up on this kind of talk long ago. a person who preaches the truths of the gospel 'for the sake of riches and honor' (alma 1:16) commits the sin of priestcraft."he said that if ezra taft benson were capable of managing the church today, his eldest grandson's plea would not have gone unheeded. packer, also a member of the council of the twelve, talked with local stake president kerry heinz, who later presided over a disciplinary council that excommunicated church critic paul toscano. what he aptly describes as mormon “social hysteria,” quinn recounts how, with the mormon church’s support, laws were enacted in utah that made interracial marriage a punishable crime. i had 3 by that time and had just realized i was too far along with #4 to do anything but have another baby!' you opined that 'it was a mistake for packer to meet with heinz and a mistake for heinz to ask for the meeting. we don't need to honor no stinkin' subpoenaoaks also admitted to me in personal conversation that the mormon church had purposely decided not to cooperate with the salt lake city police department's investigation of the mark hofmann murders, by refusing to honor a subpoena calling for the turnover to the slpd of the papers of william mcclellin.’t treasure up past wrongs, reprocessing them again and again. that option was negated, he said, when hofmann plea-bargained in july. he paused for a few seconds, encouraging members to write these things down. a broad-based international study of the levels of happiness before and after “major life events” found that, on average, persons are far more successful in recovering their level of happiness after the death of a spouse than after a divorce. here are dallin's reasons that dating has become an "endangered species":1. religious leaders of various denominations affirm and preach that sexual relations should only occur between a man and a woman joined together in marriage., however, vehemently denied that he had been behind the banishment of toscano. from deceptive dallin: what oaks has said in private, vs. 7, i received another 'personal and confidential' letter from steve benson thanking me for calling the reporter 'to clarify your earlier statements. and now he has written me a letter using that confidential meeting to pressure me. there is not a place in my family for people who do not believe as they believe. byu commencement gems:"[oaks recognized] the challenging times facing graduates – wars and rumors of wars, natural disasters, recession and the prospect of further financial disaster, values and standards being denied or cast aside as more people call evil good, and selfishness replacing service. 1) i reached the reporter, advised him of the circumstances, and asked to withdraw the single sentence. placed his hand over his heart and said, "i get this knot, this warm feeling right here, and that is what i go on. let loose with information about his participation in the efforts to club and then conceal the ecclesiastical mugging of toscano in private conversations i had with oaks and maxwell, in maxwell's downtown salt lake city church office during september 1993. noise from the supremacist boys: oaks' insulting performance in twisting lds racist history.-day saint spouses should do all within their power to preserve their marriages. unfortunately, under current no-fault divorce laws, it can be easier to sever a marriage relationship with an unwanted spouse than an employment relationship with an unwanted employee. referring to packer, he said, 'you can't stage manage a grizzly bear. monday, jul 23, 2007, at 09:01 am original author(s): westberkeleyflats topic: dallin h. the people of the united states, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this constitution for the united states of america."in summary, when i found that i could not defend the correctness of one brief sentence in a long interview, i immediately contacted the reporter and withdrew that sentence, doing so more than three days before the story was scheduled for publication. oaks on why a federal marriage amendment is a bad idea."i understand your displeasure with the fact than an agreement of confidentiality was abrogated.“perhaps the most convincing book in justification of the south in denying to the negro race social equality with the white race is the one written by william benjamin smith, entitled the color line, a brief in behalf of the unborn, from which the following is a quotation:“'here, then, is laid bare the news of the whole matter: is the south justified in this absolute denial of social equality to the negro, no matter what his (personal) virtues or abilities or accomplishments? take this potato peeler—which you have to be familiar with here in rexburg! the only way you can talk about truth is if you respect the truth, which you do not. hast thou not heard, that the everlasting god, the lord, the creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? you will accomplish many seemingly impossible things and you will change the world! “bless[ing] other people in a quiet, unassuming way” is part of what the young women personal progress manual calls “my own divine mission” (young women personal progress: standing as a witness of god [salt lake city: the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints, 2001], 26) in describing the value of individual worth. used the word "chasteneth," saying that god chastens and thereby shows his love.) often times, silly comments lead to serious discussion where new insights are made. maxwell and i met with steve and mary ann benson for about two and one-half hours to discuss their questions. i have no doubt at all now that it was the right thing to do. the reasons, oaks said, were two-fold:First, the church had privately determined that the mclellin papers it possessed were not relevant to the police investigation.--he talks a good game for the faithful--but hints of doubt when he's off camera. heard someone on this forum explain that the hardest thing for those of us who have left is to discern what we really believe vs what is indoctrination. oaks really believe that moses produced the pentateuch or that it is known who wrote the, nonsynoptic, gospel of john? told me that when it came to the mormon church's attention that it did, in fact, have mclellin papers in its possession, the discovery process was already underway, preliminary trial motions were ongoing and hofmann was destined to plea-bargain in july. holy ghost is like a burning in the bosom - but not according to oaks. it is so important in the confederate version that it is in the opening sentance. michael quinn, “prelude to the national ‘defense of marriage’ campaign: civil discrimination against feared or despised minorities,” originally published in “dialogue: a journal of mormon thought,” 33:3, pp. since there is no provision for divorce in that country, these innocent victims of desertion have no way to end their married status and go forward with their lives.: --"and, uh, i think his letter and the things he says in his letter, abuse that privileged relationship, uh, in a really, uh, well, i'll stop there. what “principle” could erase the very distinction on which his entire talk depends for its point? is a few highlights:Elder oaks on when the saints will return to missouri:"my second subject of wisdom concerns looking beyond the mark." five years later, on behalf of the quorum of the twelve apostles, joseph fielding smith wrote to the first presidency about african-american members of the lds church in utah and referred to the "danger of intermarriage. ministers of the gospel function best in an atmosphere of trust and love. he would not defend a guilty man or woman - he would not lie on anyone's behalf."elder oaks now admits that one of his answers to the reporter was untrue but blames it on 'inadvertence' or 'forgetfulness. know that, as well, but won't admit it, will you? and of course, silly comments sometimes turn out not to be so silly upon inspection."in reality, elder oaks did know the discussion took place--as evidenced by the fact that he later retracted this statement. he said he strongly urged packer to avoid future such meetings, adding the he expected toscano 'to sue the church. do not use your purchasing power to support moral degradation. those who utilize scholarship and disparage faith and revelation should ponder the savior's question: 'how can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from god only? turned to an off-campus, supposedly independent student publication, "student review," and spoke with its student editor, requesting that he publish a letter to the editor from me about the controversy. "because" - because spencer kimball said so, because joseph said so, because we always have. individual who, corrupted by power, has prostituted his personal conscience, sullied his judicial career and brought shame upon the legal profession in order to further his own interests, in calculated alignment with those of the mormon cult--the latter which butters his bread and provides him a position of authority within a primitive, patriarchal, outcast caste system where he is worshipped and followed in odd awe by the blindly obedient. oaks said the book explained the proper context, the role of the mormon church and the facts on the ground regarding the mclellin papers.: "and this is a, is a, uh, oh, about one-fourth of the circumstances that, uh, that, uh, steve cites in his letter, because i looked, uh, i looked at the others and, and, uh, i think that, uh, i, i don't, uh, feel any necessity under my commitment to integrity to make any change in what i said. since everyone was on vacation in august, he said, there was no one to make decisions during that time frame. lies of public officials, like the lies of religious leaders, are also extremely damaging in the way they degrade the moral tone of the entire community. reiterated that there was no evidence proving or disproving the book of mormon. lastly, to those who will ask me, "since you're not mormon any more, why don't you just leave the church alone?: "it’s an old problem, the extent to which official histories, whatever they are, or semi-official histories, get into things that are shadowy or less well-known or whatever.'s successor translator, william tyndale, similarly wished for holy writ to be accessible to the common man. (and according to some authorities, he would have done so all the time, not just where it is specified in nt text). oaks attempts to defend his anti-criticsm comments on the pbs documentary, "the mormons".“universally, they were looking back, not willing to leave the baggage of past behavior on the roadside and move on. enforcement of ethical treatment for gay and lesbian patients who patronize lds owned hospitals. subject to a lot of questions we’d like to have answered, we know who wrote the book of luke, and who wrote john, and paul wrote his letters, and so on a lot about their provenance. he stressed that benson at least three times had assured him and maxwell that their meetings--initiated by a kindly letter to benson from maxwell–were confidential and would never be publicly discussed. oaks tells two different stories about farms friday, oct 20, 2006, at 09:00 am original author(s): sourcerer topic: dallin h. hospital here in salt lake city has a blood bank which does not contain any colored blood. i love the discipline it takes to wake up every morning and to put in the time and the miles that will help my body respond to the stresses of an actual marathon."in the interview, elder oaks said he had no knowledge of whether elder packer met with the stake president." he employs a subtle trick attempting to have the membership actually believe that the only way to learn knowledge about spiritual things is from the spirit.'d think the church would get the message that if youth activities were not so damned boring, the kids might show up. smith's father, hyrum, had been murdered by a mob and was thus naturally very sensitive to the potential negative contents of the papers." okay, sure i'm not going to let my kid run into the street. as each "because" (just as we have seen in oaks' own talk) evaporates under scrutiny, another "because" replaces it. said one of his own areas of expertise was in legal affairs. work the lord has for us to do may not involve serving in high-profile positions in the church—which are, sadly, a source of comparison and competition to some. he said the mormon church decided it would wait until those proceedings were over, then produce them before trial. of course, the church could grant or refuse marriage and other ordinances according to worthiness set by church standards, and employ only those members who met church standards, but that would be the limit! 6, benson reminded the apostle that in a private meeting sept."in a statement issued friday, elder packer said, 'in late june, president kerry heinz asked his regional representative if he could arrange an appointment with me. note the similarities and, more importantly, the differences between oaks' privately- and publicly-expressed views on these matters. we can resolve to sincerely compliment someone each day, to thank someone each day, or try to go a day without finding fault. it resulted in a lower birth rate amongst those who practiced it. packer's involvement in the excommunication of paul toscano and alleging that i had broken a confidence in making that charge., it is easy to wonder if for oaks, "the history of english usage" has ceased to be the point only because "the history of english usage" completely destroys the weird arguments he keeps trying to make. interesting stuff from that page:The notion of "freedom of the press" that later was enshrined in the united states constitution is generally traced to the seditious libel prosecution of john peter zenger by the colonial governor of new york in 1735."i ran into a friend and her husband at the fireworks on the fourth. religious leaders of various denominations affirm and preach that sexual relations should only occur between a man and a woman joined together in marriage..were moving the utah in support of alternative (and illegal) marital lifestyles? 10, steve benson wrote us a letter expressing gratitude for 'being able to talk freely in an atmosphere of trust,' reaffirming his commitment to 'honor completely the confidentiality of our conversation, in not speaking, or even alluding to, for the record anything said by either of you,' and asking for another meeting to deal with 'some follow-up questions. though steve benson works for this paper, he did not arrange this interview and was not included in it. the whole point of the king james version of the bible was to put it into common tongue - not keep it “exalted” or “obscure” or “archaic (although a few of tyndale’s by then famous phrases, 80 years old by that time and already sounding a bit dated, were kept). yet, he admitted his mistakes, repented of them and became not only one of the lord's mightiest witnesses, but an example to the rest of us imperfect souls of what it means to be honest and true in christ. because he was a newspaperman, we sought and he gave solemn assurances that our discussions would be confidential."however, oaks, a former utah supreme court justice, acknowledged that his single statement to reporter brinkley-rogers about having no knowledge of the packer-heinz meeting was one 'i could not defend. it seems so much easier to determine that no god exists. it must be 'no'"'i have no knowledge of whether he did. persons who reveal truths that they hold under obligations of confidentiality, such as medical doctors, or lawyers, or bishops who have heard confessions, are guilty of wrongdoing. for example, some persons write general authorities asking when we will be returning to missouri or how we should plan to build up the new jerusalem.?"the fact that something is true is not always a justification for communicating it. they expressed their gratitude for the righteous young women whose influence strengthens their testimonies. the preparation you are making now in this disciple preparation center will help you accomplish things you never dreamed of. that is the primary and most important reason for the existence of brigham young university-idaho and for its sponsorship by and affiliation with the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints. so, if elder packer is having any conversation with kerry heinz, it is outside the normal channel. it is the comparison that makes you proud: the pleasure of being above the rest. but that can’t happen without calling into question the reliability of the charismatic joseph, and thus the authority of his church. i know that's true, because he has done that for me." following these examples, the first amendment to the united states constitution restricted congress from abridging the freedom of the press and the closely associated freedom of speech., in a strongly worded defense of the church's efforts opposing same-sex. however, it will require the exercise of all the talents and spiritual gifts the lord has given us as well as those he has given us the capacity to develop." friday, may 4, 2012, at 02:08 pm original author(s): fetal deity topic: dallin h. we young women here in africa, we have many challenges but sister dalton, we have the gospel of jesus christ! the powers that be are pulling out the big guns now.: "the, the, the only thing i can see that i want to correct. he said he strongly urged elder packer to avoid such meetings in the future and admitted he expected paul toscano 'to sue the church' (this also contradicts elder packer's claim of prior approval). you are already descending into the low state of marriage-in-name-only, please join hands, kneel together, and prayerfully plead for help and the healing power of the atonement. any rate, he maintained, that interval was too narrow, so the church decided to wait until turley's book, 'victims,' was published in 1992. in fact he didn’t even run properly—he shuffled!" [in this sense, the meaning of the word "inclusive" would be better expressed as "non-inclusive. in these settings, you may make copies of the pdfs, share links, and embed the video. the mothers usually make the gari in a pot, over a fire, out in the front of their little hut. oaks' unsuccessful rewrite of the actual mormon church teaching and practice of "celestialized" plural marriage. further defended the mormon church's refusal to provide its mclellin papers to law enforcement investigators on the grounds that the subpoena only requested mclellin documents that hofmann, not the church, was said to have possessed. 'i had to decide to be a party to the cover-up or be faithful to my own convictions,' benson said. i never saw this at this level with mormon families. oaks - legal polygamy as the mormons see it thursday, sep 15, 2005, at 07:24 am original author(s): anonymous topic: dallin h. i will teach him how loving family members treat each other through my unconditional love for him. likewise, invited to speak at the university of utah, nobel peace prize recipient ralph bunche was allowed to stay at the lds church's hotel in 1951 only after this black man agreed to use the freight elevator, ‘have his meals in his room and not come to the dining room. am i supposed to proceed in faith, with all of this horse shiza in my head? they don't get to hear his first words or see his first steps., in the april 2008 general conference, dallin oaks made the following statement:“another way to seek a testimony seems astonishing when compared with the methods of obtaining other knowledge. your value to him is independent of your body mass index; your accomplishments in arts, academics, or athletics; your possessions, popularity, or marital status; your current calling in the church; or any other thing that can be a source of comparison and competition. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ in making his case for censorship, oaks tells interview helen whitney the following (availabe on the lds church's own offical media site):Oaks: "i also said something else that has excited people: that it’s wrong to criticize leaders of the church, even if the criticism is true, because it diminishes their effectiveness as a servant of the lord. in fact, i think it may get harder for us. many find information through the internet some would rather find things out about the church history, doctrine through teachings, rather than the internet, or other resources. there will definitely be boats of guilt heaped upon anyone who asks for any help. it must certainly be a problem for them to harp on it so hard. really wish someone would testify a counter argument to congress wednesday, oct 19, 2011, at 09:11 am original author(s): jesus smith topic: dallin h. you don’t want to be getting into and creating doubts that didn’t exist in the first place.("benson replies, charges oaks with dissembling," in "salt lake tribune," 25 october 1993, sec. in the course of writing history, i said that people ought to be careful in what they publish because not everything that’s true is useful. and we're justifying that by saying we gave million back? oaks on the absolute power of the gift of discernment friday, jul 7, 2006, at 08:58 am original author(s): silence dogood topic: dallin h.' the church president's diary did not indicate whether he endorsed or opposed this activity, but his brother nicholas g.) while we lived in that ward, from that time on, i was inactive, refused to pay anything towards tithing, but craved the visits from my visiting teachers (we were never home-taught), and i never went back asking for help again either."the dominance of state law will also be changed if, after full review, federal courts decree that a state law on marriage is invalid under the united states constitution. last summer, he criticized the faith's hierarchy for claiming his 94-year-old grandfather was still involved in important church decisions."it would be unfortunate if the letter is killed for fear that your publication would somehow be considered 'anti-church' or that it would be bad for business. if the idea is to have as many babies as possible, shouldn't any marital arrangement that results in less babies on average also be condemned? explains why his lies aren't lies - teaches future church leaders the true order of lying.: "i assume that that's part of your professional approach to this and if i, if i can deal separately with you, independent of steve benson"--. he said they were written by mclellin in his earlier missionary years of church service."to participate in this fraud would only serve to erode trust and destroy relationships."children are also victimized by marriages that do not occur," oaks said. he had organized, reordered, and revised his slides to present plainly the most important information in a logical, easy-to-follow sequence. what i do know is that persons worrying about such things are probably neglecting to seek a firmer understanding and a better practice of the basic principles of the gospel that have been given to them with words of plainness by the scriptures and by the servants of the lord., according to elder oaks, we should use "thou" because it is more "dignified", and, according to elder oaks, "thou" is not more dignified, because (as most people interested in english know), it actually is the now obsolete informal, intimate form of address - exactly the one people did use to address golfish and criminals with, 500 years ago. she wrote, “[i swept] up the floor, and set the broom in its accustomed place behind the door. he had lied to a reporter about events which he had described to me in much different terms. eventually, however, oaks's cover was blown--at which point oaks, according to my source, offered to resign from the quorum of the twelve apostles. we had to get letters from all our family explaining their living situation. packer said:To seek after the praise of men, the scriptures caution us, is to be led carefully away from the only safe path to follow in life. michael quinn, “prelude to the national ‘defense of marriage’ campaign: civil discrimination against feared or despised minorities,” originally published in “dialogue: a journal of mormon thought,” 33:3, pp. the second is from the constitution of the confederate states. focusing on others’ talents and tasks, worrying about what rewards they may be receiving, and feeling we’re in competition for that recognition may easily distract us from our own responsibilities, inhibit the development of our talents, and divert us from our personal missions and ministries. there was a very strong element of slavery to the church's policy. this time oaks was somewhat more willing to talk about the hofmann affair--specifically, why the mormon church had not, even in the face of a law enforcement subpoena, produced the mclellin papers, which it had in its possession. wonder if this is the exception to the rule of freedom of the press that oaks was referring to:One form of speech that was widely restricted in england was the law of seditious libel that made criticizing of the government a crime. the group of young women arrived at the church promptly at nine in the morning. is a few highlights:Elder oaks on when the saints will return to missouri:"my second subject of wisdom concerns looking beyond the mark. smith's father, hyrum, had been murdered by a mob and was thus naturally very sensitive to the potential negative contents of the papers. my son doesn't get to see them at christmas or to play with his many cousins. meeting with oaks and maxwell, i provided them a prepared list of written questions (requeested by maxwell) that i wanted and expected them to answer honestly (silly me). further revealed to the church-owned "deseret news" that his decision to meet with heinz had been made through a lower-ranking church middleman. we'll grow it or get help elsewise if we find we are in need. it's simply a historical fact that both manifestos (the fake 1890 one and the "we mean it this time" 1904 one) were made in response to political and legal pressure. how many of you are getting your money’s worth and all the education you can at the educational and spiritual buffet that is byu?"a being that is able to live in fire is a good approximation of the description joseph smith gave of the angel moroni:.’s even worse is that neither the old testament nor the new was originally written in anything other than plain language."yet, even in your subsequent revision, you did not correct what i believe to have been other deliberate misrepresentations. has been made legally easy, and childbearing has become unpopular. and we should build the spiritual strength of our families by loving relationships family prayer, and scripture study. i love them so deeply and truly that it hurts because they continually put their religious beliefs before their love for me. he can’t get around that, without disavowing his main position, which he hasn’t done, that i know of. so, i stopped paying the bills and paid tithing, only to be told that we weren't worthy enough to receive any help because we weren't being honest with our fellow men! but if he, and if he gave a directed verdict or anything like that, that is contrary to policy, it is irregular and it's contrary to what i know of elder packer and the way he operates..'" [and since mormons are untouched by imperfection, these criticisms and persecutions are simply proof of the wicked world's blind hatred towards them and that mormons are right and everyone else is evil and wrong. your obligation is as serious in your sphere of responsibility as is my obligation in my sphere. elder nelson thought for a moment, and then said, “if you are well prepared in everything you do in school and professionally, and do the highest quality work of which you are capable, your work will speak for itself, and the ‘right people’ will be impressed. this and being left out of family get-togethers or barely being tolerated, simply because of my beliefs, helped me to see even more clearly what my family members' true colors were. the kjv translators - whose project, oddly enough, oaks reveres and loathes at the same time without realizing it - wanted the word of god totally comprehensible to everyone, i believe very strongly they would say he was every bit the religious bigot, upholder of superstition, and self-styled divine "authority" who actually inhibits the spread of the divine word by warring against its intelligibility, as were the catholic friars who, well, "fried" john wycliffe. 1 that he had 'no knowledge' of whether packer had met with kerry heinz, the local ecclesiastical leader for salt lake lawyer paul toscano, before heinz excommunicated toscano on sept. that is to say he was following what they had said up until 2004 when the church came out and stated its endorsement of a federal constitutional amendment defining marriage as between a man and a woman. your talk, you claimed that a parent who keeps loving a child unconditionally, when that child is not "obeying the law", knows nothing of love. index (332 topics) author index   · adam god doctrine (4)   · apologists (53)   · articles of faith (1)   · baptism for the dead (31)   · baptism for the dead - people (16)   · blacks and mormonism (12)   · blacks and the priesthood (11)   · blood atonement (4)   · bob bennett (1)   · bob mccue (144)   · bonneville communications (2)   · book of abraham (50)   · book of mormon (66)   · book of mormon evidences (18)   · book of mormon geography (24)   · book of mormon witnesses (5)   · book review - rough stone rolling (28)   · books - authors and descriptions (12)   · books - comments and reviews (44)   · boy scouts (22)   · boyd k. lewis: “pride gets no pleasure out of having something, only out of having more of it than the next man. two years later--a year and a half ago--i married kristen mcmain, the eternal companion who now stands at my side. the next thing was to call on family - again, ummmmm, nope, no go. does not, as is commonly suggested, translate exactly into “daddy”, but it definitely is a familiar, intimate term, maybe something like "papa" - not “your royal highness” or whatever it is that oaks seems to think jesus would want us to use. for that matter, it's best not to tell anyone except your good buddies, because then they might think twice about your apostolic calling.: "so, i, if you will do me the favor of striking out that, you do whatever you want with what remains. oaks' concerted effort to misrepresent the truth in that regard merely further exposes the intellectual and moral dishonesty of the lds church's highest leaders. in utah, we attempted to get an audience with oaks., the mormon church was more interested in doing what was necessary to cover its backside, rather than assisting when it was necessary in uncovering the truth., would someone in the media call this so called church out? said the quorum of the twelve debated when they should bring the mclellin papers forward. oaks: "disadvantages for children raised by couples of the same gender". i am grateful for my family in that they have taught me exactly how not to be in raising my own family. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ happened past the byu channel the other day just in time to see dalin oaks talking about a paper he had coauthored with another lawyer proving that it was legal for joseph as mayor of nauvoo to destroy the printing press. i don't need my son to think this is the way a family is supposed to behave. they were radiant and beautiful when they arrived carrying their scriptures on their heads, in beautiful african dress, bare-footed, and with dust all over their legs. women weren't so doggone independent and aggressive due to the women's movement, then men wouldn't be afraid to ask them out on dates. How long should i talk to a girl before dating

Comparing, Competing, and Individual Worth - BYU Speeches

rights for interracial marriage flies in the face of what oaks said here.’ at best, this revealed the racial paternalism that governed lds headquarters. his april 2007 conference talk, president packer spoke in reference to music in the church, but his words are applicable almost universally. it is an interesting thing that as human beings, we seek comfort zones. unfortunately, apostle dallin oaks chooses to deny important truths relating to elder boyd k."frankly, i find the differences between what you told me and what you told the press to be irreconcilable and ethically troubling. however, i hope the same principle will apply: that something you hear in the words of the prophets and the scriptures we will consider this morning will impress upon your mind and heart something you personally “should do about it. the virginia declaration of rights (1776) proclaimed that "the freedom of the press is one of the greatest bulwarks of liberty and can never be restrained but by despotic governments. speaking of elder packer, he told me, 'you can't stage manage a grizzly bear. source informed that that they (the source) had heard directly that oaks had to be talked out of resigning.: "so, to answer your question, i'd say that i just don't choose to affirm or deny. today, i say to each of you—move out of your comfort zones. oaks said:A message given by a general authority at a general conference ." they have gotten legislation passed that directly interferes with my rights. but the mistakes were minor, when compared with the marvelous work which they accomplished. perhaps some young adults, especially men, have carried that wise counsel to excess and determined not to date before 26 or maybe even 36. the ancient order of marriage is pretty liberal when it comes to marrying siblings, cousins and slaves. i simply cannot expose him to the hurt of my family. (to be sure, oaks had himself told me personally in private conversations that i had with him and fellow apostle neal a. there were several 'associated press' wire stories detailing benson's allegations and responses from oaks. meeting with oaks and maxwell, i provided them a prepared list of written questions (requeested by maxwell) that i wanted and expected them to answer honestly (silly me). asserts that his church's "12th article of faith states our belief in being subject to civil authority and in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law."the scriptures tell of another apostle--a man of god and servant of the master who, because of weakness and pressure--also lied three times. the use of the words white salamander and old spirit seem understandable."except, if you are jesus, and married to both mary magdalene and elizabeth (and likely others) ([a] [t]eaching unique to early mormon apostles, most notably jedediah grant, orson hyde, and brigham young). you can move beyond the limitations set by ordinary men.(the preamble to the confederate constitution mentions sovereignty, the u.'" ("elder oaks says news story 'seriously distorted' facts, lds apostle calls his error unintentional. i can't help but notice how much the whole thing looks like a mini-me senate or congress, trying to ape the look of 'power' and 'authority' of government bodies, the same attempt to look very serious while dispensing quite shallow and hackneyed responses that utterly fail to address to the human existential situation as it actually is globally, rather than simply as it is in some kind of 50's utah sunday school valley. they can't bring in converts so they have to depend on home growing the numbers in the churcha and it just ain't happenin'. unfortunately, apostle dallin oaks chooses to deny important truths relating to elder boyd k.-click and copy the "-guid-" (the link location url) for a direct link to the page and article. their power derived from their ability to be the final interpreters of a scripture withheld from the very people they sought power over (does that sound familiar? normal converstation among honest adults, the appropriate term for this kind of schizoid behavior on oaks' part is: "lying hypocrite."'i think that steve benson is just going to have to carry the responsibility for whatever he relates about a confidential meeting,' oaks said. holding out hope, however, i faxed a cover letter, along with the letter to the editor, to "student review," wishing for a change of heart. perhaps our writing of history is lagging behind the times, but i believe that there is purpose in all these things – there may have been a time when church members could not have been as well prepared for that kind of historical writing as they may be now. mclellin was, as described by steven naifeh and gregory white smith in their book, "the mormon murders: a true story of greed, forgery, deceit, and death" [new york, new york: weidenfeld and nicolson, 1988, p. oaks to say that someone not kowtowing to the church's view of salvation leaves a family in a "house divided," with the "son divided against the father," etc. now, when (cough) i received this letter from steve, which was, uh, a very accusatory letter"--. if our bodies are sick, we seek to heal them. was becoming clear that if church members were going to get the truth on this messy affair, they couldn't depend on the church for help. my statement to the reporter was corrected before it was published."in our september 24th meeting, i asked you if kerry heinz, paul toscano's stake president, had had any contact with, or received any instruction from, elder boyd k. the ancient order of marriage is pretty liberal when it comes to marrying siblings, cousins and slaves. gather your courage and look for someone to pair off with. at the time hoffman was not happy with jerald over this.: "and he was comparing that with notes he'd made earlier when he had a conversation"--. further informed me that the school paper was already having problems "up the road" with the church. (possible synonyms for "mark" could include: blemish, blot, blotch, pock, scar, smudge, splotch, spot, stain. **everything** may be sacrificed in order to maintain the integrity of those essential facts. he said that if the mormon church had at that time revealed it was in possession of mclellin's papers, the press would have made "a big brouhaha about it. reuben clark explained: ‘since they are not entitled to the priesthood, the church discourages social intercourse with the negro race . what we're doing now is pivotal and it's not easy. message to peter and to us is clear: “don’t concern yourself with others’ assignments or performance. neither of us had any idea what the future would hold. i tell you this before you scoff to yourself and think, "i'm glad a loser like her is out of my church anyway. in this special and sacred and set apart place, you and i have access to unparalleled spiritual resources that can assist us in developing and deepening our devotion as disciples of the lord jesus christ. examination will also provide some inside information about what oaks actually thinks of both the book of mormon and farms. speech should rightfully be titled "the true order of lying--how to lie without really lying", by dallin oaks. confidentiality agreements are valid only when the parties involved remind truthful, whether publicly or privately. brigham young: "'"our religion is adapted to the capacity of the whole human family."the dispute over what elder packer said in a meeting with heinz has attracted news media attention because some of those disciplined and their supporters had claimed elder packer was personally conducting a crackdown on church dissidents., with his english translation, helped to start changing this situation.'ll give oaks' credit for this, though his talk is a carcrash - i don't imagine anyone being able to do better defending the indefensible than he does. many of the 1,000+ government benefits of "civil marriage" would help these families and their children."while elder oaks said he was glad to correct his misstatement, he didn't like benson's methods. some see themselves or their loved ones as the victims of divorce."it is critical to understand that oaks did not initiate any corrections for the record. all of the scores of media stories on that subject apparently assume that the author of that letter used the word 'salamander' in the modern sense of a 'tailed amphibian."however, in a 'personal and confidential' letter to oaks on oct.“during this era of utah's racial segregation, the first presidency . 1, elder oaks gave a carefully-worded, tape-recorded interview to 'the arizona republic,' where he was asked if elder packer was 'involved in any way' in the disciplining of paul toscano., the church did have in its possession certain mclellin papers, as admitted by richard e. it would seem that even if other governors of the day were enforcing sedition laws joseph was not acting in accordance with the views of the men whom the church teaches were inspired by god to lay the foundations of this country and was not acting in a manner which upholded and sustained the freedom of expression in his community."in other words, you have told the truth in private about the packer-heinz meeting, while denying the truth in public. i disagree and feel that you know nothing about love. packer during the time leading up to paul toscano's excommunication. when she gave her first recital at the university of utah's kingsbury hall, this african-american was denied entry to any of salt lake city's hotels and had to stay with one of the concert's promoters. the book of job i cut quite a bit of slack in where that came from and how literal one takes it because its povenance is quite different than the provenance of the first five books of the old testament." those "patient efforts" could involve shunning, subtle forms of stigmatizing, all manner of bs that most people on this board have experienced first-hand. if elder packer is having any conversation with kerry heinz, it s outside the normal channel . a young, newly married, realizing we just were not making it, i went to the bishop for help - just food please, i've worked out a lot with our creditors. sure there was one family member who was willing to take us on. what the mormon church knew and when it knew it: murdering the truth in the mark hofmann bombing case wednesday, oct 24, 2012, at 08:31 am original author(s): steve benson topic: dallin h. hinckley declared to the world on the "larry king live" show that polygamy was a big, fat gospel and illegal no-no:"i condemn it, yes, as a practice, because i think it is not doctrinal.. the leveling effect of the women's movement has contributed to discourage dating."we encourage children to define themselves by their growing testimonies, not their athletic or academic achievements. leaving the church and utah, i have met many wonderful families. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ based on reliable information recently shared with me from an inside-the mormon-beltway utah source, lds apostle dallin h.: "somebody has called me a liar and i don't like to (inaudible) to that on a charge like that. he may never know how much that meant to us, though he denied that he was the one who was delivering the goods (non-member neighbors told us it was a man in his truck that was delivering the food, so we knew it was him)., i guess serving as president of byu really reinforced his perception of quality education. examined together, they point to a deliberate pattern of deception. further defended the mormon church's refusal to provide its mclellin papers to law enforcement investigators on the grounds that the subpoena only requested mclellin documents that hofmann, not the church, was said to have possessed. they all take the whole month off because they 'work so hard all year during the week and spend their weekends going to regional conferences, building dedications, etc. i was troubled and, frankly, even a bit frightened by the possible consequences of speaking out.’ this appeared in the officially published ‘deseret news' and ‘journal of discourses,’ and morgan became an lds general authority a year after a salt lake city mob lynched an african-american male on a lamp-post in 1883 for killing an lds bishop. oaks spoke yesterday tuesday, sep 21, 2010, at 09:10 am original author(s): michaelm topic: dallin h. what the mormon church knew and when it knew it: murdering the truth in the mark hofmann bombing case. zenger was acquitted after his lawyer, andrew hamilton, argued to the jury (contrary to established english law) that there was no libel in publishing the truth. oaks, in open defiance of his ultimate leader's condemnation of this heinous practice, solemnly told a byu devotional audience on january 29, 2002, in a sermon entitled "timing," that he not only endorsed polygamy but that he was, in fact, himself a temple-practicing, eternal lifer two-wifer:"when i was 66, my wife june died of cancer. while instructing the corinthian saints not to partake of meat offered in sacrifice to idols, the apostle paul explained,? so the tbms should really just back the f off. believe in polygamy, they practice polygamy--and they lie about polygamy. perhaps not, but today i believe one of the reasons i was asked to speak is because i think i have the hanging out/dating thing figured out! take every opportunity you can to draw strength and inspiration by attending the temple and seek learning not only by study, but also by faith.: we should follow the spirit in determining how much we shun disobedient children tuesday, oct 6, 2009, at 09:06 am original author(s): bamboom topic: dallin h.'" ("elder oaks says news story 'seriously distorted' facts, lds apostle calls his error unintentional. brinkley-rogers permitted me to listen to the full tape of the phone conversation between himself and oaks, i realized i had been duped.”12 so young men, make an investment with your wallets, in your future. further informed me that the school paper was already having problems "up the road" with the church. their bodies were piled so high in front of his gun that he and his men had to push them away in order to maintain their field of fire. one element is that we’re emerging from a period of history writing within the church [of] adoring history that doesn’t deal with anything that’s unfavorable, and we’re coming into a period of “warts and all” kind of history. the time, i really treasured the book, and i loved the man, gandhi."fourth, elder oaks summarized his knowledge of the packer-heinz-toscano case by once again falsely pleading ignorance. there was widespread use in all-white neighborhoods of utah's uniform real estate contract, form 30, which prohibited the purchaser of real estate and his/her heirs from reselling the property ‘to any person not of the caucasian race. he has the “authority” to tell people how to live and what to think but takes no responsibility for how his words affect his followers., you can still purchase pornography at any marriott hotel, owned by an lds general authority by the same name. but oaks was worried about it still, and mentioned it in his later comments. (dallin oaks married june dixon in 1952, who passed away in 1998. in awhile, however, they blurt out things in private that are probably weighing on their chests and which they feel they need to get out." oaks said that he had a conviction that the book of mormon was "true. and, don't go out on the internet to look, either, you losers. while listening to him talk about this situation where 'good mormon parents' are confronted with this dilemma of one of their kids living in non-married sin i noticed that he was talking about an abstract version of the situation according to law. i don't need my son to think this is the way a family is supposed to behave. explains why his lies aren't lies - teaches future church leaders the true order of lying. in so doing, i feel you violated the trust and faith between not only you and me, but between the church leadership and the members at large., if you are brigham young, in which case you can have as many as 55 wives married to you in this life, and untold numbers sealed to you in the life hereafter. i therefore felt it my moral obligation to break the silence that otherwise would have served only to perpetuate falsehood and false faith. so the tbms should really just back the f off..I was told that we needed to quit our job (that we had looked for 6 months for, moved ourselves 1200 miles to accept, and dh was moving up the "chain"), and move back home with family (his folks were on church assistance for health reasons, his brother the church was paying to keep on a mission, his married sister and bil were between jobs.--a flubbed opportunity for high mormon leaders to come clean on the hofmann case. and when the prophet speaks, the thinking has been done. also argued that the mormon church only had between may and august of that year as the available interval in which to get the mclellin papers out. there is not a place in my family for people who do not believe as they believe. does not, as is commonly suggested, translate exactly into “daddy”, but it definitely is a familiar, intimate term, maybe something like "papa" - not “your royal highness” or whatever it is that oaks seems to think jesus would want us to use."it is critical to understand that oaks did not initiate any corrections for the record., i turned to provo's community newspaper, "the daily herald," hoping for a sympathetic ear. in fact, i myself have said a lot of stupid things on here. even close to the 0k that the house would have sold for on the market at that time! no one believed that this could be done—no one that is, except cliff. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ i read oak's article about dating vs hanging out. 6, benson reminded the apostle that in a private meeting sept., the people of the confederate states, each state acting in its sovereign and independent character, in order to form a permanent federal government, establish justice, insure domestic tranquillity, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity invoking the favor and guidance of almighty god do ordain and establish this constitution for the confederate states of america. 164], "an early apostle and close associate of joseph smith's who left the church in 1836 to become one of its bitterest enemies."helping elder oaks: the ancient order of marriage," by "peter_mary," 16 october 2009, original emphasis). i understand their value, and i have had some experience in using them. and the impact these private institutions have on those they serve is magnified by the millions of volunteers motivated by the ideals they pursue. so on the second day of the race, cliff was forgotten. 'he has taken a confidential meeting where he had repeatedly assured me that he would never speak of subjects we were discussing . next ward, we paid our tithing, much to the woes of my dh who has never had a "testimony" of tithing. the ancient order of marriage demands, however, that you don't tell your first wife about all the others, because it makes her really mad. oaks to byu-idaho women: your destiny is to be a wife and a mother in zion thursday, nov 16, 2006, at 06:49 am original author(s): from ohio (cleveland stake) topic: dallin h."but after later learning that elder oaks left intact the other comments that troubled benson, benson said he followed through on his threat to go public. mcconkie wrote, “spiritual gifts are endless in number and infinite in variety” (a new witness for the articles of faith [salt lake city: deseret book, 1985], 371). oaks this last conference:We must also act to protect those we love.(confederate constitution mentions guidance of god in the preamble, u. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ today i read for the first time this speech given in 1993 by dallin oaks to byu laws students and faculty. he doesn't know how to work diplomatically with the gay and lesbian community and so he is resorting to demands for absolute legal protection under "freedom of religion". the brethren felt i could not very well decline to see a stake president. (and according to some authorities, he would have done so all the time, not just where it is specified in nt text). when he left, i did not know what he would do. (just replace “latin” with “kjv english”, which for many people, four hundred years later, seems about as incomprehensible as a robert burns poem written in scottish dialect, and you have oaks' position). and the sunday school teacher that gives “brother jones” his understanding of church history may be inadequately informed and may not reveal something which the church has published. and not only that, but he had determined to run for the next five days straight to the finish line without sleeping at all., just invites--and this is really the only point that matters in finding oaks' talk hateful--tbm family members to perform their "patient efforts" to "unite" their straying loved ones "in understanding god's love and god's law. "confrontation" sounds pretty active, in your face, and that can include the social violence of shunning or stigmatizing (and of course there is no lack of that directed by church members toward "apostates"). what the mormon church knew and when it knew it: murdering the truth in the mark hofmann bombing case. finally, once the cat was out of the bag, oaks had expected me to help cover his posterior by covering my mouth.: --"and for me to affirm or deny his notes, so i, i simply stand silent on what he claims took place"--. it was these papers that were the subject of my conversation with oaks and maxwell. the closed-mindedness that encourages and teaches intolerance of it is crumbling. in addition, 40 percent of utah's employers refused to hire negroes. packer during the time leading up to paul toscano's excommunication. didn't hear the whole proceeding, but it doesn't sound like religious organizations are being singled out in any way.“in 1953, a first presidency secretary also informed a white mormon about the less-obvious extent of utah's racial segregation: ‘the l." this was a very horrible thing to say to a daughter who has just lost her best friend, her mother. but pres news room will take the vague dive--'we don't know why god kept religious inclusion and privileges from homosexuals previously, but that is now in the past. to other members is an essential process, and who would know that better than the leader/liars themselves. said the quorum of the twelve debated about when they should bring the mclellin papers forward. dallin oaks in flagrant violation of official lds doctrine tuesday, jul 17, 2007, at 01:02 am original author(s): steve benson topic: dallin h. 7-12)” (first year book in the seventy's course in theology, pages 231-233). you seek the praise of god and do always those things that please him. god bless the founders and the supporters and the workers of the foundation for ancient research and mormon studies. guess that’s probably why they do it that way now so nobody can pin them down to any doctrinal position. elder oaks: the ancient order of marriage friday, oct 16, 2009, at 09:09 am original author(s): peter_mary topic: dallin h. moreover, prior to the interview, i did not speak to brinkley-rogers about what oaks and maxwell had told me concerning the packer/ toscano matter in my meeting with them on september 24th. on what grounds, in the end, does oaks argue that "right" requires english speakers to try essentially to create out of nothing, like kwanzaa, and use, a formal form of address, while "right" also requires virtually all non-english mormons to do exactly the opposite? the first few months we were married i burned everything, even grilled cheese sandwiches. according to 'the arizona republic' story, elder oaks also said that if elder packer told the stake president what action to take against a church member, it would violate church policy and 'be contrary to what i know about elder packer and the way he operates. the first presidency explained this racial exclusion as simply ‘the practice of the hotel. oaks in june ensign: quit hanging out and start dating thursday, may 25, 2006, at 09:46 am original author(s): lunar quaker topic: dallin h. the one that always touches me the most is a journal entry from bathsheba smith. oaks - legal polygamy as the mormons see it thursday, sep 15, 2005, at 08:54 am original author(s): anonymous topic: dallin h.: "what i would like to know is the relationship between you and steve benson in this matter. so as paul taught the hebrews, today i repeat the same words to each of you—“cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompense of reward. got off of church financial assistance (and onto state aid for medical), and only used the bishop's storehouse (should have done the food stamps, but hind-sight is lots better than being in the moment). see a person in context; don’t depreciate their effectiveness in one area because they have some misbehavior in another area – especially from their youth. it never has been - and is still not, where it is used - the "reverent", "dignified", or "formal" form, not in regional dialects, nor in se). oaks,I listened to your conference address and have felt the effects of your talk in my personal life. he did not bother to properly support his claim, apart from vague references to an unnamed "scholar" or a supposed "new york times article.“part of the time, serious sin was involved, but more often they had just ‘fallen out of love,’ saying, ‘he doesn’t satisfy my needs anymore,’ or, ‘she has changed.”6 a woman who persisted in an intolerable marriage for many years until the children were raised explained: “there were three parties to our marriage—my husband and i and the lord. the ability to rejoice in the successes and talents of others increases our capacity for happiness and joy as we experience those feelings each time someone we know succeeds. it says, “the lamanites…began to decrease as to their faith and righteousness, because of the wickedness of the rising generation. wonder if this is the exception to the rule of freedom of the press that oaks was referring to:One form of speech that was widely restricted in england was the law of seditious libel that made criticizing of the government a crime. we can’t be perfect right now, but we can all be perfectly pure.. for many years, the church has counseled people not to date before age 16.’ in other words, the first presidency condemned interracial marriage as abnormal.: "well, i appreciate the opportunity to visit with you and thank you for calling. us count the ways it historically did so, as outlined by quinn:--the utah’s mormon church sanction of state laws against interracial marriage, combined with mormon church encouragement of death threats against blacks--.: "if he shows you a copy of his letter"--. virginia that:"under our constitution, the freedom to marry, or not to marry, a person of another race resides with the individual and cannot be infringed by the state. you might think you know, but if you are not following lds teachings, you are operating contrary to god's law. individual who, corrupted by power, has prostituted his personal conscience, sullied his judicial career and brought shame upon the legal profession in order to further his own interests, in calculated alignment with those of the mormon cult--the latter which butters his bread and provides him a position of authority within a primitive, patriarchal, outcast caste system where he is worshipped and followed in odd awe by the blindly obedient. our heavenly father knows exactly where you are and he will be with you. a week on the table (my husband and myself) and diaper a newborn baby. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ dallin oaks, the shameless excuse-maker for joseph smith, the press-destroying criminal--should be regarded as a profound embarrassment to those solidly grounded in the legal profession. to use lawyering as an example, what i am saying is that women should not attempt to be manly lawyers. emphasized how he and others had repeatedly counseled us to avoid debt and become self-sufficient: "i have said this again and again at numerous stake conferences around the midwest. the federal government was sending marshalls to arrest and jail men who practiced this form of marriage. [see oaks, 'religious freedom,' in 'newsroom: the official (mormon) church resource for news media, opinion leaders, and the public,' transcript of oaks' speech at byu-idaho, rexbury, 13 october 2009). elder packer is not the least bit inclined to shrink from saying things like in the talk you saw [to the all-church coordinating council, 18 may 1993]. is very sad to not have any grandparents for my darling baby though. i am sure the lord loves and blesses husbands and wives who lovingly try to help spouses struggling with such deep problems as pornography or other addictive behavior or with the long-term consequences of childhood abuse. faust gave this reassuring counsel:If you prepare to walk down the path of life, you can be rewarded beyond your dreams and expectations. four days after oaks' article appeared in the 'salt lake tribune,' my own commentary followed in the same newspaper, giving a somewhat different perspective on events:"mormons are admonished to be honest. privately owned up to me, however, that packer had inappropriately injected himself into local church action against toscano--and, in the process, violated church disciplinary procedures and opening the church up to a possible lawsuit from toscano. in the temples of the lord, couples are married for all eternity. a child who has a belief differing from yours is not "wayward" and is in need of neither fixing nor manipulating, especially not when one's child is an adult, as you suggested. each night he came a little closer to the leading pack.: temple ceremonies changed to remove "oath of vengeance" against the us for the death of joseph smith.: "before i talk with you about it, let me ask you a question"--. "what the gay and lesbian communities are fighting for, that is a civil-rights issue.' making specific reference to the desegregation controversy in little rock, arkansas, counselor clark in 1957 instructed belle smith spafford ‘that she should do what she could to keep the national council [of women] from going on record in favor of what in the last analysis would be regarded as negro equality. and what is plenty of history for one person is inadequate for another, and we have a large church, and that’s a big problem. though with great faith in god, he aligned himself with reason, autonomy, and enlightenment, and against the dark forces of dogma and questionable, irresponsible religious authority claims. oaks on why a federal marriage amendment is a bad idea wednesday, sep 5, 2012, at 09:13 am original author(s): mujun topic: dallin h. let us all improve our personal behavior and redouble our efforts to protect our loved ones and our environment from the onslaught of pornography that threatens our spirituality, our marriages, and our children. second, contrary to what you told me, you explicitly said to the reporter that, in fact, you were not aware if any conversations took place between elder packer and president heinz. here are dallin's reasons that dating has become an "endangered species":1. we have a vivid illustration of this in the recent media excitement about the word 'salamander' in a letter martin harris is supposed to have sent to w."i mention first what is probably the most important of the great fundamentals of the united states constitution-the principle of popular sovereignty". compulsive comparison can rob us of the enjoyment we might still experience in the expression of the talents we have been given and in the talents of others.: "and i assume that you don't want to get involved with steve's controversies with his church.“and i say unto you, whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery” (matthew 19:8–9). example, in the aftermath of katrina and the other 2005 gulf coast hurricanes, the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints aided the cleanup efforts with almost 3,000 tons of emergency supplies, over million in cash and use of heavy equipment, and its members gave more than 42,000 man-days of service. "hoax" of mormon church history for expediency's sake, this one really takes the cult cake:"[according to mormon apostle dallin h. is just another example of church leaders telling the members what they really think about them they could care less."two years later--a year and a half ago--i married [in the lds temple] kristen mcmain, the eternal companion who now stands at my side. oaks appears to be trying too hard to prove to himself that he really does have a "testimony. but it isn't that "thou" has "changed meanings"; it is that it has been totally obsolete - hasn't been used - in "standard english" (hereafter "se") for going on half a millenium. "we should assume the same disadvantages for children raised by couples of the same gender. wait till they call you and personally ask you to go on a date with them. oaks would have us believe that the news media suppressed the true meaning of the word. well thought out estimates put ldsinc's annual tithing income in the range of -10b with b as a good figure. but the mistakes were minor, when compared with the marvelous work which they accomplished. lawyer for the lordthis, despite neal maxwell's posterior-kissing boast to me in september 1993 (in the presence of oaks whose favor he was also shamelessly currying) that he (maxwell) had been instrumental in getting oaks called into the quorum of the twelve because, maxwell said, the church needed oaks' legal expertise."toscano, who is appealing his excommunication, said he loves the church, but doesn't confuse it with 'individual leaders who are kind of running amok in a vacuum. next went to the church-owned deseret news to air his grievances. has shown huge returns on investment over the past century."the subsequent news story published locally in tuesday's 'salt lake tribune' was the latest episode in a saga surrounding recent disciplinary action taken against six prominent mormon scholars and feminists. oaks was less than truthful in some statements made concerning apostle boyd k. it is a belief that you are free to have. others want to know details about the celestial kingdom, such as the position of a person who lives a good life but never ever marries. didn't hear the whole proceeding, but it doesn't sound like religious organizations are being singled out in any way. often debate this question in our family as we are traveling to run a marathon. so find out what that is and multiply your gifts.?"a spirit that is able to live in fire is a good approximation of the description joseph smith gave of the angel moroni: a personage in the midst of a light, whose countenance was "truly like lightning" and whose overall appearance "was glorious beyond description" (joseph smith-history 1:32).

Dare Great Things

just as the lord in the parable gave talents and set expectations for each servant individually, so also does he provide for each of us a unique blend of talents and circumstances, including formal church callings and other opportunities individually customized to accomplish his purposes in our lives and in the lives of those we can bless. copies must include any copyright notice originally included with the material. i remained silent in the face of these lies, i would have been an accessory to oaks' falsifications. this politically liberal counselor was unaware of the lds church president's private views about ‘insolent’ african-americans who wanted equal rights. please use the purity of your spirit, intellect and testimony to help us heal together. my husband was the bishop of a singles ward and i studied it there. i think he was telling some nice stories about widows and little boys in his trademark sing-songy voice. do not counsel members to divorce, but they can help members with the consequences of their decisions. it's kind of like being married to the book of mormon. oaks: "don't write me a letter" monday, may 29, 2006, at 06:33 am original author(s): shane ak topic: dallin h. my son's life will be richly blessed because of it., the lds church did have in its possession certain mclellin papers, as admitted by richard e. however, when my friends and family turned away from me because of my beliefs, my previous notions about the people within the church were shattered.: --"and, uh, i presume that you don't know about its contents"--. the best way to avoid divorce from an unfaithful, abusive, or unsupportive spouse is to avoid marriage to such a person., four years later, elder oaks was back, thus time going after those who complained that the church was not providing their needs. to speak before them at a banquet in his honor, however, oaks praises farms for what it is doing in defense of the book of mormon--and then caps it off by blessing them for it in the name of god. i thought it was the purpose of farms to keep apostles from making fools of themselves by, for example, making statements that anyone who's taken a freshman-level old testament or new testament survey course would laugh at. (no wonder he was in the mood to be so generous from the podium, despite what he felt about farms in private). now, i am at peace because i have watched the behavior of many mormons long enough now to see how a corrupt organization turns love into a perverse concept. by church policy that is left entirely to local leaders." when subsequently asked by the media about rumors that packer had worked behind the scenes to get toscano excommunicated, oaks claimed ignorance and denied that packer could ever do such a thing. well thought out estimates put ldsinc's annual tithing income in the range of -10b with b as a good figure.: "but when i received this letter, which i did this afternoon about 5 o'clock"--. one would think that the preaching of such a doctrinal belief would be protected by the constitutional guarantee of the free exercise of religion, to say nothing of the guarantee of free speech. if he had an affair with a girl when he was a teenager, i don’t need to read that when i’m trying to read a biography of the founding father of our nation.. the meaning and significance of a "date" has changed in such a way as to price dating out of the market. it is also perfectly acceptable to divorce them if they don't take care of themselves, or expect you to take care of them. what i know and have learned is that anything worth doing is not easy and that we can do anything that is not easy if we believe. recorded that, in the savior’s day,Among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of god. in this regard, oaks told me that the church had unilaterally decided that police detectives didn't need what the lds church had in its possession because, he claimed, the papers that the church controlled were from mcclellin's earlier, believing days and not from his later apostate period. then indicated that through tithing we can qualify for all blessings the lord has for us. this time they learned from past mistakes and scheduled this broadcast a month before easter so the lack of emphasis on jesus wasn't quite so startling as it was on easter of 2009.: "and i assume that neither you nor the republic want to be used in steve's grievances against, and controversies with, his church"--. the first general conference to which i paid serious attention, elder robert l. the ancient order of marriage is pretty liberal when it comes to marrying siblings, cousins and slaves. was starting to talk to my dad again by phone and email. oaks--in a fresh warning to a youthfully malleable, blindly obedient, humbly assembled herd of student sheep at idaho's extension of brigham young university--sought to liken stiff opposition to the mormon church’s recent political campaign of subterfuge against equal rights for gays to the ugly racist opposition encountered by african-americans during the u. oaks also informed me, curiously, that it was only later--when the lds church supposedly actually examined the papers in the mcclellin collection--that it realized the collection's contents were not germaine to the hofmann police investigation. it had long been rumored,' wrote naifeh and smith, 'that mclellin, who kept the minutes at early meetings of the twelve, had taken with him a pirate's chest full of papers, letters and journals, all of it incriminating, with which to destroy the church.: --"was, uh, as i looked back on the transcript, i think that's inaccurate and i want to withdraw that. but he said that during their talk elder oaks disclosed that elder packer and heinz were old friends who did get together at heinz's request and that such a meeting was a mistake.’ therefore, african-americans were denied equal access to the lds church's hotel in order ‘to preserve the purity of the race that is entitled to hold the priesthood. but neither the collection itself, nor any part of it, had ever surfaced. don't let your doubts keep you out of the mainstream. he said he strongly urged packer to avoid future such meetings, adding the he expected toscano 'to sue the church. did not leave the mormon church because of any personal offenses by my family or friends within the church. emphasized how he and others had repeatedly counseled us to avoid debt and become self-sufficient: "i have said this again and again at numerous stake conferences around the midwest. oaks himself is "sealed" to two women, and according to mormon doctrine he will live with both for eternity. the thing, in the end, just isn't defensible without ending up sounding like you're creating your own version of the nicene creed. our youngest daughter--six years old at the time--answered the phone, as my wife listened in on the other end. smith to texas who, under orders to make sure they did not fall into "the wrong hands," acquired them for . one does not just have to yield to it and live with it. the heels of the mark hofmann bombings in 1985 and in private one-on-one discussions i had with oaks in his personal lds church office (followed by conversations i had with both him and fellow apostle neal maxwell in 1993 in the church administration building), i learned how ga vacation schedules supposedly got in the way of the mormon church cooperating fully with salt lake city police investigators. if only oaks had told the truth, it would have been a lot shorter.’re bad, because we might start to wonder, after digging more deeply into the various translations, if the kjv can’t be replaced because to do so might undermine the basis for many of joseph’s teachings and doctrines, which were “riffs” or midrashic embellishments on particular kjv verses - which in some cases were mistranslations (unbeknownst to joseph), or which were misunderstood by him due to ambiguity in the translation. oaks on the role of women:"sisters, don’t fall for the worldly urging that women should emulate men in various masculine characteristics. "an open letter" dated october 15, 1993, i wrote:"given the events of recent days, i feel it important to communicate to you the reasons why i believed it necessary to speak openly about our conversations concerning the packer-heinz-toscano affair. that is not what the lord created you to do. question i posed to oaks and maxwell concerned reports that packer had been behind the excommunication of toscano. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ what set me off about oaks' talk was that the over-emphasis on law implicitly advises tbm family members that shunning is an option., just invites--and this is really the only point that matters in finding oaks' talk hateful--tbm family members to perform their "patient efforts" to "unite" their straying loved ones "in understanding god's love and god's law. when the text comes, don’t go join them—just text back: “busy tonight. don't know what compelled me to watch this oppressive double-think."in actuality, elder oaks knew how elder packer operated and did not like what he saw. “testimony” comes through a “personal revelation” from god via the holy ghost and is as serious as any testimony offered in a court of law - perhaps more so, because god’s commandment specifically states that “thou shalt not bear false witness”."my dictionary defines lying as being 'deliberately untruthful' and a 'lie' as 'a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive., referred to the murdered man as ‘a [rhymes with “trigger”]. far, oaks has argued that "thou" should be used because it is "dignified", even though as he explains, it wasn't ever actually "dignified" at all; insinuated then that it might be appropriate just because the meaning has changed, even though it hasn't where still used in regional dialect, and in fact has dropped entirely from se. closed-door conversation, oaks jabs mormonism's premier group of apologetic water carriers being for too strenuous in its defense of book of mormon historicity. his speech, elder oaks cited a number of religiously diverse examples and leaders in highlighting his four points on preserving religious freedom:Religious teachings and religious organizations are valuable and important to a free society, thus "deserving of their special legal protection.' he said he was 'distressed and astonished' that elder packer met with president heinz, noting 'it was a mistake for packer to meet with heinz and a mistake for heinz to ask for the meeting. oaks to byu-idaho women: your destiny is to be a wife and a mother in zion thursday, nov 16, 2006, at 09:00 am original author(s): from ohio topic: dallin h. wish i could say it was an easy decision--that i saw the road brightly ahead of me from the moment i was confronted with oaks' deceit--but that was not the case. they should be partners in family finances, working together to regulate their desires for temporal things. i don't know how much tithing revenue the mormon church receives each year in the u., he said, the mclellin papers the mormon church had were of no relevance to trial evidence being requested by the police (although oaks admitted that no one in the quorum had read them at the time or knew what was in them). others want to know details about the celestial kingdom, such as the position of a person who lives a good life but never ever marries."i don't really have an opinion on this practice - i was just in the church for decades, lived in utah for several years and i never heard this before so i thought it would be interesting to share. i am of pioneer stock and all of my family members are very active in your church."i informed him that our confidentiality agreement was void and offered him 24 hours to set the record straight, advising him that if he did not, i would. however, we are beginning to see worldwide indications that this may not be so. it was promoted by the highest leaders of the state's dominant [mormon] church. lifferth: a very nice lady who spoke about growing up in ames, iowa and other warm fuzzies that warmed up local members. is 'a mythical being thought to be able to live in fire. here's just one quote from a church approved manual back then. when he was interviewed by the press, they told him in effect that he was crazy to attempt this and that he should not even start the race. he had lied by omission and commission, but somehow had talked himself into believing he had done the right thing.: "when i did that, i saw one sentence in my interview with you--and only one sentence--that i would say overstated the truth. he is being tricky because it really is not free exercise of religion that is weakening but the practice of religion itself that is weakening., there were no mormon church leaders available at the time to work with the police on the mclellin paper caper, because the church personnel authorized to do so were all on vacation.’” (quinn adds that mckay, in fact, “instructed an arizona stake president against that state's proposed legislation to ‘guarantee rights of negroes’") . i would have the clear moral obligation to set the record straight, since refusal to act would do violence to the truth and make me an accessory to the crime. those conversations, oaks confessed to the actual circumstances surrounding the excommunication of toscano, then expected me to cover for him after he lied in public about what we had privately talked in this regard. i had no choice but to tell the reporter at that point that oaks was attempting to pull a fast one on him. months earlier, packer had warned a gathering of lds bureaucrats that some mormons "influenced by social and political unrest are being caught up and led away" by "the gay-lesbian movement, the feminist movement, as well as the ever-present challenge from the so-called scholars or intellectuals. but ultimately, what else can one conclude from what he said? but neither the collection itself, nor any part of it, had ever surfaced. thursday, sep 30, 2010, at 08:21 am original author(s): joseph topic: dallin h. in the process of cementing such laws into place, sentiments were publicly expressed by mormon church leaders condoning the actual killing of african-americans found in violation of the state's anti-black marriage laws. well-informed source who knows oaks personally told me that oaks could well have offered his resignation but then decided, upon receipt of outside advice, to not abandon ship. oh how difficult for these godly parents when this 'sinful kid' says, 'if you loved me you wouldn't judge me and you'd accept me as i am'."it would be unfortunate if the letter is killed for fear that your publication would somehow be considered 'anti-church' or that it would be bad for business. out this counsel to young single women:If you are just marking time waiting for a marriage prospect, stop waiting. it is a gift that was given to us by the savior in gethsemane. he had already contacted us and was only willing to buy from us for 1/3rd of what we owed. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ talk about the unconscionable rewriting by dallin h.’ at that time, spafford was a vice-president of the national council of women. reuben clark used the word [rhymes with ‘trigger’] in his first presidency office diary. first, by couching your answer to the question of elder packer's conversation with president heinz in the hypothetical, you falsely imply, it seems to me, that you do not know whether he did talk with president heinz. all of the scores of media stories on that subject apparently assume that the author of that letter used the word salamander in the modern sense of a 'tailed amphibian. shouldn't those be some of the christian virtues that the lds church embraces and promotes?"as he admitted earlier to me, he clearly knew more . i also understand your reasons for being upset that i went public after having expressed appreciation for your calling the press in an effort to clarify your earlier statements. tentmakers like paul - the greek, by the way, used by people whose native tongue wasn’t greek at all, but aramaic."benson added that elder oaks referred to elder packer when saying, 'you can't stage manage a grizzly bear."as i noted in earlier correspondence, i feel you lost the benefit of confidentiality when you knowingly dissembled in public about what you told me in private. the favorite bible story of those who came to class was the parable of the talents:For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods. don’t know the answers to any of these questions. the rights of others would be respected and protected under the constitution of the united states. we hope they will be very happy, but experience of the brethren through a hundred years has proved to us that marriage is a very difficult thing under any circumstances and the difficulty increases in interrace marriages. you have been reserved to be here on the earth now. is hurting humanity, reaping a wind-fall of cash from unwitting believers and returning a dollar each back to society. oaks of the quorum of the twelve apostles of the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints. i might then ask why paul tells his congregations that the spirit of god says that believers in christ should worship god as “abba”?" following these examples, the first amendment to the united states constitution restricted congress from abridging the freedom of the press and the closely associated freedom of speech." ("cracks in the temple: mormon unity in peril," paul brinkley-rogers, in "the arizona republic," 10 october 1993, sec. but they that wait upon the lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint. and now he has written me a letter using that confidential meeting to pressure me." or maybe they should reprimand young men who "adjust" themselves in the church hall? he said he strongly urged elder packer to avoid such meetings in the future and admitted he expected paul toscano 'to sue the church' (this also contradicts elder packer's claim of prior approval). these are the reasons why i opened myself back up to them again. see a person in context; don’t depreciate their effectiveness in one area because they have some misbehavior in another area especially from their youth. in utah, we attempted to get an audience with oaks. i highlighted his false on-the-record statements, so that there could be no misunderstanding. reuben clark, this policy of segregating african-american blood from the blood donated by so-called ‘white people’ was intended ‘to protect the purity of the blood streams of the people of this church.: "uh (clears throat), when i met with steve benson"--. in the book of mormon the prophet jacob described a people who “despised the words of plainness, ."in a follow-up letter transmitted friday to elder oaks explaining why he decided to speak openly about their confidential conversations, benson said, 'i feel you violated the trust and faith between not only you and me, but between the church leadership and the members at large. informed speculation on who may have convinced oaks to stay on board rather than quit the quorum suggests that then-first presidency counselor gordon b. i might then ask why paul tells his congregations that the spirit of god says that believers in christ should worship god as “abba”? but since the church’s very claims to authority are based on claims about “the truth”, how can it fight against access to it, without legitimately arousing the gravest suspicion? sometimes i would have to run those sheep for two or three days. such comparison may lead to the sins of envy and ingratitude as we focus on and fret about what we don’t have rather than on what we have been given. in contrast, jesus, speaking of his father, said, “i do always those things that please him” (john 8:29)." okay, sure i'm not going to let my kid run into the street."team sports and technology toys like video games and the internet are already winning away the time of our children and youth," oaks said. it must certainly be a problem for them to harp on it so hard.' i did not 'lie' to the reporter and, contrary to the wire-service story printed in the october 16 'tribune,' i did not 'admit' to 'falsely telling' the reporter something that was untrue. those who think their spouse is entirely to blame should not act hastily. christ said such “con men” or “false prophets” will look just like innocent lambs, but they will eat you alive like the wolves they are inside! in fact, there was nothing on it at all, except for a single newspaper article, the subject of which i could not read, since from where oaks sat, it was upside down."the scriptures tell of another apostle--a man of god and servant of the master who, because of weakness and pressure--also lied three times."well, you know, as you've thumbed through your book, it only appears to me that 5% of your book has been marked, so i would say don't throw out the 95% because of the 5%. told me that when it came to the church's attention that it did, in fact, have mclellin papers in its possession, the discovery process was already underway, preliminary trial motions were ongoing and hofmann was destined to plea-bargain in july., i’d like to know (if we are to maintain the kind of “appropriate distance” to deity recommended by oaks and before him, by mcconkie), why gordon b. now, um, i guess my question is, do, do you have knowledge that he did that, in that case? 1 an 'arizona republic' reporter asked oaks if packer was 'involved in any way' in the disciplining of toscano." ("packer says he was concerned by request for meeting, but apostles endorsed it," by "associated press," in "salt lake tribune," 17 october 1993, sec."well, it's not word-for-word and it's not the whole chapter. in the book of mormon the prophet jacob described a people who “despised the words of plainness, .'s my experience:As a kid, i didn't know any difference - i know my folks would occasionally get food orders, normally we didn't go with them, the food just showed up. i would be an idiot to give them another chance. elder oaks basically suggested that people should stop their complaining and realize that the church serves up eternal blessings. had not arranged the interview and did not join the reporter in it, as i did not think it would be appropriate for me to do so. professionals who had run this race knew what it took and they had calculated that in order to finish in five days, a person had to run for 18 hours straight and then sleep for six hours. since the letter purports only to be martin harris's interpretation of what he had heard about joseph's experience, the use of the words white salamander and old spirit seem understandable.“even after federal emancipation of america's slaves in the 1860s, lds church president brigham young referred to african-american slavery as a religious necessity."were four little mormon girls blown up in the church at sunday school? oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ there is something else in the “dating versus hanging out” ensign article that got my attention. they don't get hand colored scribbles of "i love you" in the mail. the use of the words white salamander and old spirit seem understandable. that is near to what it would have sounded like to the contemporaries of its writers. the whole point was to make it comprehensible, so as to neutralize the claims of priests - and mormon apostles - who in effect argue that the scriptures mean whatever they say they mean. to speak the truth is to give an accurate account of the facts. snow: spoke for several minutes about how his son was injured in a bike accident and was left in a coma for days. in contrast, we are commanded not only to “cease to find fault one with another” (d&c 88:124) but also to “strengthen your brethren in all your conversation” (d&c 108:7). apostles deceptively say one thing in public--and quite another in private. sometimes we are silent because the lord has confided in us, and we know we are not appointed to be the means of disseminating the knowledge to others. october 1st, brinkley-rogers met for a prearranged, on-the-record, taped q andamp; a session with oaks in his salt lake city church office to discuss, among other things, recent church action against the dissenters. of all, i resented the fact that oaks had put me in this position in the first place. in 1965 and 1967, he stated in televised meetings on temple square in salt lake city that ‘the so-called civil rights movement as it exists today is a communist program for revolution in america. the perspective of a nutrition professor, a college education is like a large buffet: you pay and then serve yourself as much as you want from a wide variety of foods.” then they will huddle and brainstorm about whom to text to come and join them..there are many sacred things that we do not discuss. the next day, he disclosed to the 'associated press' details of confidential conversations and correspondence between him and elder oaks. case was the church policy that black men could not hold the priesthood, marry in the temple or hold other church callings (except for boy scout leader). bishops and stake presidents can’t speak for the church. up until that point, the church had been talking out of the other side of its mouth. hoax/oaks reportedly offered to quit the quorum of the twelve sunday, dec 28, 2008, at 09:14 am original author(s): steve benson topic: dallin h., it is easy to wonder if for oaks, "the history of english usage" has ceased to be the point only because "the history of english usage" completely destroys the weird arguments he keeps trying to make. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ i am beyond annoyed that a man sustained as a "prophet, seer, and revelator" in the mormon church felt the necessity to take an international stage and denigrate the marriages of others. oaks acknowledged that farms sometimes gets 'hyperactive' in trying to prove that the book of mormon is true. smith's father, hyrum, had been murdered by a mob and was thus naturally very sensitive to the potential negative contents of the papers. oaks, this is what this means, “hanging out consists of numbers of young men and young women joining together in some group activity. at the end of his presentation, which was the last in that session, many scientists in the audience came to the front to greet him as he stepped down from the podium to commend and congratulate him and even offer to remain in contact regarding his future research.: "now, i assume, as i told you at the time, that you're a professional journalist"--. and we're justifying that by saying we gave million back?, because men are so darned sensitive, if we women aren't kind when we turn down a date, it might hurt the man's feelings so much he won't ask anyone else out. to me, his talk invites tbms to be aggressive in their re-conversion efforts, and that's not what i need my family to hear as i try to get them the heck out of this stupid church. family relationships wouldn't be impaired if family members who believe in the church's doctrine would mind their own business tuesday, oct 6, 2009, at 09:07 am original author(s): mantisdolphin topic: dallin h. course, oaks was just restating an argument that the church had already asserted in the march 1980 ensign when it gave various, detailed arguments against the proposed equal rights amendment. who dress immodestly are pornography to men tuesday, apr 5, 2005, at 08:09 am original author(s): anonymous topic: dallin h. the closed-mindedness that encourages and teaches intolerance of it is crumbling. five days after the phone conversation with the "arizona republic" reporter, oaks publicly admitted that he had not been truthful about his knowledge of packer's involvement in the toscano episode. maxwell in september 1993 that reports claiming etb was at that point administering the affairs of the church were not true, given my grandfather's failing health). oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ we all knew it was coming. i love them so deeply and truly that it hurts because they continually put their religious beliefs before their love for me. even says that "hanging out" is glamorized on tv and that contributes to the reason men don't ask women out on dates. the application of this principle will, of course, vary according to the nature of a particular language, including the forms that were used when the scriptures were translated into that language. seeing him saith to jesus, lord, and what shall this man do? up until that point, the church had been talking out of the other side of its mouth. we have a vivid illustration of this in the recent media excitement about the word 'salamander' in a letter martin harris is supposed to have sent to w. they did come through, it took 3 months, but they did finally come through. though we didn't qualify for church aid (we didn't pay tithing), he had a very kind heart.” to do so, president hinckley urged, “sacrifice a car; sacrifice anything that is needed to be sacrificed to qualify yourselves to do the work of the world” (“prophet’s counsel,” 4). on the one hand, i did not like to live a lie by participating in an organization i did not agree with and that i thought was corrupt. here are some other spiritual gifts:Hearing and using a still, small voice. oaks said, of course, was that he is married to two living women at the same time. said that the whole question of this portion of the investigation centered on whether hofmann even had the mclellin papers. majority of his talk was on subjects unrelated to easter.("benson responds to oaks' letter," in "the daily herald," 26 october 1993, sec. maxwell concurred, adding that the mclellin papers had been 'stuffed away somewhere' and the church did not realize it had them. stop competing with each other in a group for the attention of the available men in the room. protections against hate crimes or hate speech if the person who is making the threats is doing so for "religion".?"a spirit that is able to live in fire is a good approximation of the description joseph smith gave of the angel moroni: a personage in the midst of a light, whose countenance was "truly like lightning" and whose overall appearance "was glorious beyond description" (joseph smith-history 1:32). "some young men and women are skipping church youth activities or are unavailable for family time in order to participate in soccer leagues or to pursue various entertainments."third, elder oaks misleadingly insisted that for elder packer to have had contact with president heinz ran counter to elder oaks' personal knowledge of both elder packer and his approach. do you have any evidence that elder packer [was] involved in any way in the decision-making process in the disciplining of [him]? this and being left out of family get-togethers or barely being tolerated, simply because of my beliefs, helped me to see even more clearly what my family members' true colors were. we have a vivid illustration of this in the recent media excitement about the word 'salamander' in a letter martin harris is supposed to have sent to w. and people aren't having as many kids as they used to. he giveth power to the faint; and to them that have no might he increaseth strength.(and by the way, my wife is from lancashire; and if you went there right now and talked to people over fifty [as i have a few times] who still speak in dialectic, you would hear them quite frequently use the informal "thou" and "thee" to their grandchildren, farm animals like goats and pigs, and grocery boys. is difficult to refrain from comparing yourself to others when you know that professors, employers, and others are doing just that. the duty to tell the whole truth is also limited by special legal protections, such as the privilege against self-incrimination.”likewise,” quinn writes, “in an 1881 sermon on salt lake's temple square, southern states mission president john morgan spoke approvingly of hanging negro males ‘to a lamp-post’ for ‘impudence. an "associated press" wire-story appearing october 12th in "the salt lake tribune," veteran utah reporter vern anderson wrote:"elder oaks admitted late monday he 'could not defend the truthfulness of one of the statements' about packer, who is considered by many to be behind the church's recent crackdown on dissidents . i was troubled and, frankly, even a bit frightened by the possible consequences of speaking out. the church is not necessarily there for our present needs. there was another reason for opening the door to my family again: i loved them unconditionally. entitled “prelude to the national ‘defense of marriage’ campaign: civil discrimination against feared or despised minorities,” it recounts the cold-hearted track record of the mormon church behind utah’s zion curtain in waging relentless racial war against the state's black population. when he [heinz] left, i did not know what he would do. likewise, invited to speak at the university of utah, nobel peace prize recipient ralph bunche was allowed to stay at the lds church's hotel in 1951 only after this black man agreed to use the freight elevator, ‘have his meals in his room and not come to the dining room. likewise, in 1950 counselor clark wrote: 'race tolerance: the trend is just terrible. if we will use our spiritual powers of discernment, we will not be misled by the lies and half-truths satan will circulate in his attempts to deceive us and to thwart the work of god..'" [and since mormons are untouched by imperfection, these criticisms and persecutions are simply proof of the wicked world's blind hatred towards them and that mormons are right and everyone else is evil and wrong. result was the 1890 manifesto by president willford woodruff which ended the open practice of polygamy. i didn't realize until later all the implications other people would associate with it as far as being able to dwell in fire. there will be trials and tribulations in abundance but the lord has said, “and the saints also shall hardly escape; nevertheless, i, the lord, am with them. we know that many of you are innocent victims—members whose former spouses persistently betrayed sacred covenants or abandoned or refused to perform marriage responsibilities for an extended period., he insisted he had not directed toscano's stake president, kerry heinz, to convene a disciplinary council against him. after he published his translation, one which broadly would come to serve as the template for future translations, including the kjv, he was pursued by the catholic church, caught, and then burned at the stake. am i supposed to proceed in faith, with all of this horse shiza in my head?"except, if you are kind david or king solomon, in which case you might have as many as 300 wives and 300 additional concubines, and copulating with and siring children by slaves was perfectly acceptible, both in the eyes of your citizens, and in the eyes of god, who sanctioned the practice. in fact, that format might provide the best opportunity for readers to determine for themselves the facts of the case. you have a better chance of getting help from the state or the banking industry!"except, if your wife died, and you're an lds apostle, you can be sealed to another, much younger woman, so you'll get both of 'em in the eternities.' reported offer to quit the quorum came, it was said, in the midst of an attempted cover-up on his part designed to hide from public scrutiny the back-room details concerning the excommunication of mormon intellectual paul toscano. a lot shorter, had he followed through on his offer and resigned over his dissing of his quorum of the twelve superior and fellow myth-spinner packer. these are not part of a live and let live philosophy, but of a relentless badgering of the non-believing family member. holding out hope, however, i faxed a cover letter, along with the letter to the editor, to "student review," wishing for a change of heart.' and packer' plottings against toscano were ultimately unmasked within the larger context of the mormon church's 1993 crackdown on dissidents (the so-called "september six"). weirdest talk in modern gc history: dallin oaks' "language of prayer". it does not send a portion of the people to howl in torment for ever and ever . instead of being "amused to death," they are "bored to death" at church. here's just one quote from a church approved manual back then. i'm trying to de-tox them and he's trying to get them to spread the poison anew. they obviously helped dallin out quite a bit to know that the salamander letter was a fradulent document created by mark hofmann before he endorsed it talking to mormon "educators. in fact, that format might provide the best opportunity for readers to determine for themselves the facts of the case.

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the work that you do is important, it is well-known, and it is appreciated. it was a testimony to me of what a corrupt organization can do to otherwise loving and good people. it came to a head when congress passed the edmunds-tucker act of 1887 to punish the violations, disincorporating the church and seizing its assets."benson's letter to oaks had warned the apostle that unless he set the record straight, benson would feel under no obligation to honor the promise of confidentiality he had earlier given oaks and maxwell. year, the utah-based church of jesus christ of latter-day saints urged its followers to donate money and time to pass prop 8, the successful ballot measure that eliminated the right of same-sex couples to wed in california."however, oaks, a former utah supreme court justice, acknowledged that his single statement to reporter brinkley-rogers about having no knowledge of the packer-heinz meeting was one 'i could not defend., he said, the mclellin papers the mormon church had were of no relevance to trial evidence being requested by the police (although oaks admitted that no one in the quorum had read them at the time or knew what was in them). oaks, "recent events involving church history and forged documents," ensign, oct.“after counselor clark's death in 1961, apostle ezra taft benson became the mormon hierarchy's strident voice against the national crusade for african-american civil rights.” it will help us to focus on god’s will, his honor, his praise, and his blessings and distinguish them from those of men. just ask any con man about the notion, but remember, the “con” in con man stands for “confidence” . none of the eleven options for tax reform even mention (so far as i could see) the possibility of revoking 501(c)(3) status for churches or any other entity. his speech, elder oaks cited a number of religiously diverse examples and leaders in highlighting his four points on preserving religious freedom:Religious teachings and religious organizations are valuable and important to a free society, thus "deserving of their special legal protection.--efforts at obstruction by utah’s mormon church of national civil rights legislation designed to grant equality to blacks in broad areas of daily life--. men and women are waiting to get their education and started in their careers before saddling themselves with spouses and children. second, contrary to what you told me, you explicitly said to the reporter that, in fact, you were not aware if any conversations took place between elder packer and president heinz. following its publication, oaks said the mormon church decided to release the mclellin documents it had in its possession. oaks' unsuccessful rewrite of the actual mormon church teaching and practice of "celestialized" plural marriage wednesday, dec 5, 2012, at 07:58 am original author(s): steve benson topic: dallin h. it could, and should have been avoided if elder oaks had originally told the truth . finally with dh's new pay, my pay we made 1/2 of what he had made previously., all this to say agree that when the saints need help, as much as they may have paid into the system, the church probably will not pay them a dime or help them at all. lately, i have been struggling mightily with what i believe about god, love, consequence, etc. any translation which doesn’t represent that fact is a slap at them, and reveals yet another example of a mormon claim which undermines itself when seen in the light of other mormon claims."'i'm tired of playing this little game,' he said in a phone interview from his office at "the arizona republic. the boys won’t notice for a while and they’ll keep hanging out and then all of a sudden they’ll say—“hey where are the girls?’ effort to cloak mormons in the same national experience of pain and suffering as faced by black americans in the south was a shocking manifestation of his boundless, egregious, and pitifully arrogant insensitivity--particularly since it comes from a man who represents a mormon church that is itself saddled with a long, ugly and authenticated legacy of bigoted doctrinal teachings and practices against african-americans."you told me that you were 'distressed and astonished' that elder packer met with president heinz.." [in other words, the world is no different today than it was 4,500 years ago when a worldwide flood and dinosaurs threatened to extinguish humanity! so nobody can pin them down to any doctrinal position. can go forward in the strength of the lord will full confidence in his promises to us."except, if you are john taylor, lorenzo snow, wilford woodruff, george cannon, heber kimball, and on and on and on, in which case you can obtain a new wife every time your last wife gets worn out. closing, let me suggest a scripture that helps me and that i hope will help you to remember this morning’s message., there in a rental car in salt lake city, for the first time, i revealed what oaks had shared with me in our september 24th meeting, pointing out the contradictions to what i had just heard on the tape. oaks on why a federal marriage amendment is a bad idea wednesday, sep 5, 2012, at 02:00 pm original author(s): mujun topic: dallin h. elder oaks: the ancient order of marriage friday, oct 16, 2009, at 03:06 pm original author(s): peter_mary topic: dallin h. how can any discussion of a word's meaning, nuances, etc. obviously, if you don’t impress the coach, you don’t make the team; if you don’t impress an employer, you don’t get the job. just ask any con man about the notion, but remember, the “con” in con man stands for “confidence” . christ said such “con men” or “false prophets” will look just like innocent lambs, but they will eat you alive like the wolves they are inside! next paragraph is perfect from what comes later:"as members of the church, we have the gift of the holy ghost. i was treading lightly and using caution though, as i did not want to hurt my son indirectly, through my family's almost sociopathic need to "follow their leaders".: "and i am sorry for it, but in a, in a, our, our interview was 60 minutes long and, you know, i was shooting from the hip (inaudible) along"--. so its okay to tell a lie, because at the moment of telling the lie, god will tell you its true, right? he once said that even if a hundred popes were to announce something, their opinions on faith shouldn't be accepted unless they squared with holy writ. packer, "even though general authorities of the church are free to contact or respond to local leaders on any subject, i felt there may be some sensitivity about his request. oaks in june ensign: quit hanging out and start dating. but i have kept it all these years—43 to be exact. [i]t is our position that secular evidence can neither prove nor disprove the authenticity of the book of mormon. have been struggling with my understanding of god, which is still muddied by lds teachings. benson also said:The proud make every man their adversary by pitting their intellects, opinions, works, wealth, talents, or any other worldly measuring device against others. you may never have the opportunity for a suitable marriage in this life, so stop waiting and start moving. these are not part of a live and let live philosophy, but of a relentless badgering of the non-believing family member. even close to the 0k that the house would have sold for on the market at that time! so i did - but now my job didn't pay as much as the births had, so we needed to have the house payment made - my job only covered the utilities."profit" / "apostate" oaks to mormons in eight states: you were warned; you're on your own tuesday, apr 14, 2009, at 09:06 am original author(s): troubled wife topic: dallin h."one wonders why so many writers neglected to reveal to their readers that there is another meaning of 'salamander,' which may even have been the primary meaning in this context in the 1820s. so if books are all worthless at finding out about god, that means the book of mormon is worthless as well. oaks--the overblown, the underwhelming and the nonprincipled tuesday, feb 28, 2006, at 08:55 am original author(s): steve benson topic: dallin h.” it will remind us to translate our good intentions and what we know into righteous action. the heels of the mark hofmann bombings in 1985 and in private one-on-one discussions i had with oaks in his personal lds church office (followed by conversations i had with both him and fellow apostle neal maxwell in 1993 in the church administration building), i learned how ga vacation schedules supposedly got in the way of the mormon church cooperating fully with salt lake city police investigators. two years later--a year and a half ago--i married kristen mcmain, the eternal companion who now stands at my side." similarly, the constitution of massachusetts (1780) declared, "the liberty of the press is essential to the security of freedom in a state: it ought not, therefore, to be restrained in this commonwealth. the cultural tides in our world run strongly against commitment in family relationships. i love getting up early in the morning and running those streets in silence and thinking and pondering about what it must have been like to be in nauvoo at a time when the church was young. the church's growth is being threatened by young single adults who are taking longer and longer to get married. the heels of my meetings with oaks and maxwell, i then accompanied "arizona republic" reporter paul brinkley-rogers to salt lake city in early october 1993 to assist him in making contacts with lds leaders, spokesmen, educators and critics for a story on the recent purge of notable church dissidents. it is also perfectly acceptable to divorce them if they don't take care of themselves, or expect you to take care of them."when we know spiritual truths by spiritual means, we can know with the same surety its truthfulness, as a scientist when discovering scientific evidence". in that kind of atmosphere, they fail to detect a few deceivers, but that is the price they pay to increase their effectiveness in counseling, comforting, and blessing the hundreds of honest and sincere people they see. benson is a grandson of lds church president ezra taft benson."the story was published four days later in the arizona republic newspaper, without the statement., blame all that uncooperative foot-draggin' on the mormon church's vacation schedule for its hierarchy. in fact that's the problem with all these conference 'talks'. i think oak's message (subliminal) is that the longer these young people wait to get hitched, the more prone they are to. and people aren't having as many kids as they used to. if we ask “what wilt thou have me to do?" views which should, of course, be consistent with the anti-gay document, "the family: a proclamation to the world"."he quoted oaks as saying of packer, 'you can't stage manage a grizzly bear,' and added that 'it was a mistake for packer to meet with heinz and a mistake for heinz to ask for the meeting. october 29, 1993, at the farms banquet in question held in provo, utah, oaks concluded his after-dinner speech,"the historicity of the book of mormon," with this glowing tribute to farms apologists:"brothers and sisters, how grateful we are--all of us who rely on scholarship, faith and revelation--for what you are doing. a new strategy has been introduced to increase donations: the deacons will now travel by car great distances with the priests to collect fast offerings (this is done in utah where member live close together-not as practical our here).”13 the lord also instructs us to “let virtue garnish thy thoughts unceasingly” and promised that “then shall thy confidence wax strong in the presence of god…., for the inconvenient caveats:"except, if you are the patriarch abraham, in which case you can be married to sarah (who might be your half-sister), and to sarah's slave girl, hagar."you now have the opportunity to shine your light in the darkness and warm us all through your spiritual courage. is easy to imagine that addressing the creator of the universe, the embodiment of all righteousness and perfection, should impel us to use language different from that which we use to talk to goldfish or prison inmates. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ dallin oaks, the shameless excuse-maker for joseph smith, the press-destroying criminal--should be regarded as a profound embarrassment to those solidly grounded in the legal profession. blogs:The family relationships wouldn't be impaired if family members who believe in the church's doctrine would mind their own business., according to elder oaks, we should use "thou" because it is more "dignified", and, according to elder oaks, "thou" is not more dignified, because (as most people interested in english know), it actually is the now obsolete informal, intimate form of address - exactly the one people did use to address golfish and criminals with, 500 years ago. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ mormon leaders once again attack gays and lesbians. it is better for a church leader to be occasionally disappointed than to be constantly suspicious. (he says, "in our day the english words thee, thou, thy, and thine are suitable for the language of prayer, not because of how they were used anciently but because they are currently obsolete in common english discourse". you mark my words, and write them down, and see if they do not come to pass., if you are kind david or king solomon, in which case you might have as many as 300 wives and 300 additional concubines, and copulating with and siring children by slaves was perfectly acceptible, both in the eyes of your citizens, and in the eyes of god, who sanctioned the practice. during that time a friend came by to offer what help she could."i would not object to having elder oaks' version of the events printed alongside my letter. the duty to tell the whole truth is also limited by special legal protections, such as the privilege against self-incrimination. i am a lawyer, and i hear something from a client. heard someone on this forum explain that the hardest thing for those of us who have left is to discern what we really believe vs what is indoctrination. yet even after this celebrated case, colonial governors and assemblies asserted the power to prosecute and even imprison printers for publishing unapproved views. a con man is a person you would trust with your life, such men are totally believable, that’s why they are so effective. the conclusion of the interview, i picked brinkley-rogers up outside the church administration building and asked how it went.' position seems to come down to this: se currently lacks a formal "you", since "you" now is used in both formal and informal settings. it is no wonder the church was so angry at him. afterward, protests, including several near lds temples, erupted along with boycotts of business owners who donated to prop 8 and even some vandalism of lds meetinghouses.”8 i testify of him as our savior and pray in his name for all who strive for the supreme blessings of an eternal family, in the name of jesus christ, amen. told me that, by meeting with heinz, packer had gone outside the bounds of his assigned responsibility., now in my 40's, i am the opinion that perhaps gandhi is the greatest of them all (after all, if jesus did live, he doesn't qualify for the contest, on account of him being a god and all that). fourth, your blanket denial of knowing anything beyond what you told the reporter is completely undermined, i feel, by what you told me."in actuality, elder oaks knew how elder packer operated and did not like what he saw. he said he wrote elder oaks before the story ran, thanking him for retracting a statement and explaining his intention was to give elder oaks a chance to set the record straight. there were several 'associated press' wire stories detailing benson's allegations and responses from oaks.- apostle dallin oaks, footnote 28, inside the mind of joseph smith: psychobiography and the book of mormon, introduction p. even says that "hanging out" is glamorized on tv and that contributes to the reason men don't ask women out on dates. it is a belief that you are free to have.: "and i'm glad to defend whatever remains, but i cannot defend that sentence. admitting to having met with heinz to discuss toscano, packer assured the press, "we talked doctrine and philosophy. i was distressed to find one statement to the reporter i could see was not accurate ('i have no knowledge of whether he did'). so i refused to pay tithing (first time in my life). an "associated press" wire-story appearing october 12th in "the salt lake tribune," veteran utah reporter vern anderson wrote:"elder oaks admitted late monday he 'could not defend the truthfulness of one of the statements' about packer, who is considered by many to be behind the church's recent crackdown on dissidents .." he then brought in an example of perspective from an audrey hepburn movie, african queen as if show he was in touch with culture two main characters trying to reach lake victoria by boat don't realize how close they are because their perspective is obscured by the growth around them). i am always touched as i run down or walk down parley’s street and read the quotes from some of the pioneers’ journals that are now inscribed on plaques and placed along that street. me share with you the story of a very unlikely competitor named cliff young, who at 61 years of age showed up at the start of this race wearing his overalls and work boots.: --"and for me to affirm or deny his notes, so i, i simply stand silent on what he claims took place"--. the fall of 1985, a few days after the hofmann bombings, i accompanied a reporter from 'the arizona republic,' chuck kelly, to salt lake city to assist him in making contacts for covering the story. reuben clark explained: ‘since they are not entitled to the priesthood, the church discourages social intercourse with the negro race . would the era further erode the constitutional division of powers? on the other hand, i couldn't reconcile how a corrupt organization could have so many wonderful people as members. he permits divorced persons to marry again without the stain of immorality specified in the higher law. as we might expect if the church were not run, in the end, by anything approximating omniscience no matter how diluted by mortal minds, but by mortals whose access to omniscience is every bit as non-existent as our own, the church once again seems to find itself painted into a corner, any escape attempt from which - while maintaining church claims - must of necessity provoke the greatest violence on the rudimentary rules of logic, and the most basic respect for fact, truth, and reality. thus, when congress passed the morrill anti-bigamy act of 1862 (upheld by the supreme court in 1879), polygamy continued.’re bad, because we might start to wonder, after digging more deeply into the various translations, if the kjv can’t be replaced because to do so might undermine the basis for many of joseph’s teachings and doctrines, which were “riffs” or midrashic embellishments on particular kjv verses - which in some cases were mistranslations (unbeknownst to joseph), or which were misunderstood by him due to ambiguity in the translation. it was in that condition that she left her home, crossed the mississippi river, got just a little further west and had the baby on the banks of a river."in his interview with the deseret news, benson said what elder oaks told him didn't square with what was said to the reporter. he has also said, “you are moving into the most competitive age the world has ever known. during a frontal assault, hi machine gun mowed down scores of enemy infantry. as a result i was depressed, got hooked on drugs, and got the clap. 'i, therefore, in a meeting of the council of the twelve apostles raised the question of whether i should see him. when she returned in march 1948 to participate in a concert at the lds church's salt lake tabernacle, the first presidency relented. so he transmitted a confidential letter to elder oaks pointing that out. this is the man who has repeatedly claimed: "it's wrong to criticize leaders of the church, even if the criticism is true. oaks: "disadvantages for children raised by couples of the same gender" tuesday, oct 9, 2012, at 09:13 am original author(s): anonymous topic: dallin h. 7-12)” (first year book in the seventy's course in theology, pages 231-233)., use of the kjv, and the use of kjv language for mormon prayers, must be defended in whatever way possible - even in ways which make no sense, which are contradicted not only by the facts of history but by the scriptures themselves (as suggested above), and even by statements within the very talks of people trying to defend them - like dallin oaks' "the language of prayer". now, however, he is married to them both at the same time while temporarily waiting to hook up with the two of them later in life (as in mormon eternal life). their were threats by the federal government under president jimmy carter to pull the accreditation of byu because of open and active discrimmination against black students and not admitting qualified black students who had applied to the university. that is not what the lord created you to do. oaks' misrepresentations--indeed, his out-and-out lies--prompted me to fax him a letter a few days after the interview. oaks attempts to defend his anti-criticsm comments on the pbs documentary, "the mormons".: "but what i am saying is that i just don't choose to go, uh, i don't choose to bewhat's the word i'm looking for? reuben clark said), or the nrsv, even the esv which maintains the “virgin”/parthenos/alma/beutlah/isaiah/matthew deal for the born agains. the next five days, i privately struggled with how to publicly deal with oaks' blatant dishonesties. in 1947, the first presidency wrote that ‘the intermarriage of the negro and white races, [is] a concept which has heretofore been most repugnant to most normal-minded people from the ancient patriarchs till now."(elder oaks may want to explain the contradiction between his claim of being surprised by the packer-heinz meeting and elder packer's claim that the twelve gave prior approval for that meeting). family relationships wouldn't be impaired if family members who believe in the church's doctrine would mind their own business tuesday, oct 6, 2009, at 11:58 am original author(s): mantisdolphin topic: dallin h. during our brief chat, oaks was very cryptic in his comments, saying nothing of substance about the hofmann scandal. we were in the ranks of the unemployed - well, out of his consistent and constant paychecks. brigham young: "'"our religion is adapted to the capacity of the whole human family. blacks were not allowed to married for time and all eternity, it ensured that they would be servants in the eternities. contrast to the obligation to tell the truth and nothing but the truth, the obligation to “tell the whole truth” is subject to an important qualification. criticizes "soccer" and team sports tuesday, oct 9, 2007, at 04:20 am original author(s): rollo tomasi topic: dallin h. i knew very little about housework; i didn’t even know how to match socks.: --"so you'll understand why i need to ask that before i speak about this."as he admitted earlier to me, he clearly knew more . therefore, same-gender marriages performed with the proper legal authority are as legally valid as oak's own marriage. with all the energy of heart, that [we] may be filled with [charity]” (moroni 7:48), which “envieth not; .“all were worried about the effect on the children, but always the conclusion was ‘it’s worse for them to have us together and fighting. a private meeting with mormon apostle dallin oaks in 1985 shortly after the hofmann bombings (followed by a second conversation with oaks and, finally, in discussions with both oaks and fellow apostle neal maxwell), i learned from oaks just how committed the mormon church was to not telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help it elohim. i recall one sacred evening just before we were married when we shared our patriarchal blessings. what some members of the church may see or construe as "self-destructive" behavior could be someone just following his or her conscience to believe what seems right for that person. told me he was "distressed and astonished" over packer's decision to meet with heinz, even though he said heinz was the one who had called packer and asked "for the meeting. what's possible is that a stake president might think he had heard such a thing; nobody can dismiss that possibility . are many possible ways to answer elder oaks’ question about what each of us should do about today’s message. has been made legally easy, and childbearing has become unpopular. the only way you can talk about truth is if you respect the truth, which you do not.: "compared with the tape, and that's, uh, what i'd like to do, is deal separately with you. on what grounds, in the end, does oaks argue that "right" requires english speakers to try essentially to create out of nothing, like kwanzaa, and use, a formal form of address, while "right" also requires virtually all non-english mormons to do exactly the opposite? yet, to the church, such “technical distinctions” between belief and knowledge don’t seem to matter - why? that the lord's anointed did not detect the forgeries but jerald tanner, one of the main anti-mormon researchers around was the one raising doubts and questions. we have had some of our fine young people who have crossed the lines. your influence will be felt in the future, but also right now, in the present. john taylor prophesied:You will see the day that zion will be as far ahead of the outside world in everything pertaining to learning of every kind as we are today in regard to religious matters. rights for interracial marriage flies in the face of what oaks said here. this the best the mormons can do--appoint a consumate, amoral apologist?"those who rely exclusively on scholarship reject revelation and fulfill nephi's prophecy that in the last days men 'shall teach with their learning, and deny the holy ghost, which giveth utterance' (2 ne. human nature being what it is, it is difficult to imagine even the most saintly pope or priest (or prophet) never wielding such power to satisfy his own interests. more enlightened leaders understand that these are loving parents who provide wonderful, safe, secure homes for many, many children in need of love and stability. 11, steve benson sent a copy of his 'personal and confidential' letters of oct. and the athletes who enter are mostly young, less than 30 years of age, highly trained and sponsored by large companies. his much-quoted talk on dating versus hanging out, elder dallin h. parkin, former relief society general president, in her byu devotional talk in february 2007, echoed the theme of “my own divine mission” when she said:Each of us has a personal ministry. do i mean and what will this require of each of you—of each of us?"initially, i was pleased to hear from the reporter that oaks had corrected himself. (possible synonyms for "mark" could include: blemish, blot, blotch, pock, scar, smudge, splotch, spot, stain. though steve benson works for this paper, he did not arrange this interview and was not included in it. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ on august 16, 1985, apostle dallin oaks tried to ease the fears of mormon educators with regard to the salamander letter by claiming that the words "white salamander" could be reconciled with joseph smith's statement about the appearance of the angel moroni:"another source of differences in the accounts of different witnesses is the different meanings that different persons attach to words.. she worked at a local big business, making what my dh made, married to a guy who worked for another big company making twice what my dh made, she only had two kids from a previous marriage. have been struggling with my understanding of god, which is still muddied by lds teachings. were a total of 8 articles that directly or indirectly talked about marriage, dating or keeping the family together. occurred to me that perhaps the fulfillment of president taylor’s prophecy might have as much to do with integrity and credibility as with publications and professional acclaim. part of his testimony i thought interesting was this rationale for making churches tax exempt:Today millions of these private “associations”religious and charitableare responsible for tens of millions of jobs and innumerable services that benefit our citizens at every level. it made no mention of the sentence i had withdrawn. their father had lost his job and the church had been helping them with their mortgage payments so they wouldn't be foreclosed. was excommunicated from the mormon church on september 19, 1993, "for writing and speaking publicly about church doctrine, feminism, the state of the faith's leadership and other issues. benson is a grandson of lds church president ezra taft benson. it comes right down to it, i am just hoping that there is something bigger, eternal, transcendent, and just bigger than me, and that love, mercy, truth and goodness are signs of his existence. graduates and other saints suffer worldly criticism and perhaps even persecution. atonement is necessary for certain sins (brigham young: "i have seen scores and hundreds of people for whom there would have been a chance (in the last resurrection there will be) if their lives had been taken and their blood spilled on the ground as a smoking incense to the almighty. marriage is not a group activity--at least, not until the children come along in goodly numbers."those facts are as follows [the letter then covered ground already noted above, with these additional observations]:"on oct. i know the ins and the outs of dating and while i didn’t do much hanging out because my mother wouldn’t let me, i did enough to understand what takes place in that arena."oaks said he had assumed by benson's second letter that he was satisfied. when a client, who had committed an offence (criminal or civil), asked gandhi to defend him in court, gandhi would always counsel the client to plead guilty and accept the consequences.: --"then it's, then it's much easier for me to (inaudible) my problems. i felt really bad for a large, faithful, tithe- paying family in sitting close to me., hundreds of thousands, if not millions of parents in america are gay with children from a previous marriage, adoption or various methods. but is it "self-destructive" for someone to decide to follow another religious or existential path than one laid out by the church? was told by a "universe" faculty adviser that oaks' version of events had been published in the "universe" at the direct request of the first presidency."to participate in this fraud would only serve to erode trust and destroy relationships. i had no choice but to tell the reporter at that point that oaks was attempting to pull a fast one on him."the dispute over what elder packer said in a meeting with heinz has attracted news media attention because some of those disciplined and their supporters had claimed elder packer was personally conducting a crackdown on church dissidents."that thank-you note proved to be premature, because i was unaware at the time i wrote it that oaks had not retracted all his falsehoods. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ i happened past the byu channel the other day just in time to see dalin oaks talking about a paper he had coauthored with another lawyer proving that it was legal for joseph as mayor of nauvoo to destroy the printing press. year, the utah-based church of jesus christ of latter-day saints urged its followers to donate money and time to pass prop 8, the successful ballot measure that eliminated the right of same-sex couples to wed in california. for that matter, it's best not to tell anyone except your good buddies, because then they might think twice about your apostolic calling. oaks said, of course, was that he is married to two living women at the same time. the worst was when i incorrectly announced that my prophecy that the "principal ancestors" phrase would be eliminated from future editions of the bom had been fulfilled in the new doubleday version, when it hadn't. ezra taft benson was denouncing it as a communist plot, while the rank and file held the separation of races as part of the divine plan. hinckley has repeatedly emphasized a harsh reality of which you are all aware. maybe even better in my mind is richmond lattimore’s translation of the new testament. and it's contrary to what i know of elder packer and the way he operates . on the other hand, i couldn't reconcile how a corrupt organization could have so many wonderful people as members. (three other statements challenged by steve benson required no correction. told me that the mormon church had discovered in mid-march of 1986 that it possessed some mclellin papers--and so publicly announced.”as american views began changing toward race relations from the 1940s onward, the mormons of utah continued to follow the example of lds leaders against civil rights for african-americans."except, if you are kind david or king solomon, in which case you might have as many as 300 wives and 300 additional concubines, and copulating with and siring children by slaves was perfectly acceptible, both in the eyes of your citizens, and in the eyes of god, who sanctioned the practice. protestant king james repudiated more’s/oaks’ position by authorizing a new translation, one that would combine the best features of all then extant versions, to be written in the tongue of the common man - not some fake language which we’re supposed to pretend is “exalted”."i don't really have an opinion on this practice - i was just in the church for decades, lived in utah for several years and i never heard this before so i thought it would be interesting to share. after all, wouldn't a loving god not allow the lds church to exist, and to contaminate my mind with oaksian garbage? oaks could make a much more honest case for supporting only heterosexual marriage if he said something like:For around 60 years members of the lds church engaged in an alternative marital lifestyle that in hindsight was a big mistake. "hoax" of mormon church history for expediency's sake, this one really takes the cult cake:"[according to mormon apostle dallin h. i appreciated your explanation of the current situation with 'student review. would the era further erode the constitutional division of powers? can't have the priesthood (brigham young: "any man having one drop of the seed of cane (cain) in him cannot hold the priesthood . furthermore, during the sydney to melbourne race now, modern competitors do not sleep. i found this interesting because many gas have told me that their missionary experience is often the only thing that keeps them going in the gospel. is given to be heard under the influence of the spirit of the lord, with the intended result that the listener learns from the talk and from the spirit what he or she should do about it.' position seems to come down to this: se currently lacks a formal "you", since "you" now is used in both formal and informal settings. i used to love it and it pained me to have it out of my life, even after it no longer represented any kind of truth for me. of oaks tuesday, oct 6, 2009, at 11:56 am original author(s): sthilda87 topic: dallin h. four of his on-the-record answers are quoted below, paired with contrary facts he provided me in the sept. have been several instances where the church has been in trouble for civil rights violations. men have the initiative, and you men should get on with it. this, coupled with the growing population of black mormons in brazil ultimately led to a "revelation" by president spencer w."i referred to these fundamentals as the divinely inspired principles in the constitution, and i here affirm my belief that they are. bishops and stake presidents can’t speak for the church. speech combined with packer's infamous "not all things that are true are useful" speech goes a long way toward explaining the justification for the institutional lying that the church has engaged in from the beginning."but in a serious tone, elder oaks, a member of the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints' council of the twelve, said he feels 'wounded' by an associated press story that he said dwelled on his admission that he made a statement he couldn't defend, and downplayed his efforts to promptly correct his unintentional error. the infinite power of his atonement will strengthen and enable you and he will lead you by the hand., if your wife died, and you're an lds apostle, you can be sealed to another, much younger woman, so you'll get both of 'em in the eternities. it is a gift from a loving heavenly father who so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son. said he concluded that all three authors were "impressed by the holy ghost" to record their thoughts "in this particular manner and in these particular words. he used this to show that the lds church is law abiding, but won't be performing any gay marriages even though it is now legal in many jurisdictions. my sincerity of motive, i believe, was evidenced by the fact that, given the problem i faced with reconciling your public and private comments, an opportunity was provided for you to set the record straight. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ in making his case for censorship, oaks tells interview helen whitney the following (availabe on the lds church's own offical media site):Oaks: "i also said something else that has excited people: that it’s wrong to criticize leaders of the church, even if the criticism is true, because it diminishes their effectiveness as a servant of the lord. monday, oct 12, 2009, at 07:58 am original author(s): moniker topic: dallin h."but after later learning that elder oaks left intact the other comments that troubled benson, benson said he followed through on his threat to go public. when we married, we were both in school at byu. person who compares and considers herself superior in some way may feel an unjustified sense of accomplishment and expertise. repeatedly affirmed that no african-american could stay at the lds church-owned hotel utah (which had maintained this exclusion since its opening in 1911). were people lynched and their genitals stuffed in their mouths? a week on the table (my husband and myself) and diaper a newborn baby.Dating versus Hanging Out - Ensign June 2006 - ensign

Toward a Theology of Dissent: An Ecclesiological Interpretation

" five years later, on behalf of the quorum of the twelve apostles, joseph fielding smith wrote to the first presidency about african-american members of the lds church in utah and referred to the "danger of intermarriage. example, he writes:>> the special language of prayer follows different forms in different languages, but the principle is always the same. lawyer for the lordthis, despite neal maxwell's posterior-kissing boast to me in september 1993 (in the presence of oaks whose favor he was also shamelessly currying) that he (maxwell) had been instrumental in getting oaks called into the quorum of the twelve because, maxwell said, the church needed oaks' legal expertise. ministers of the gospel function best in an atmosphere of trust and love. after their trip to the river and their simple morning meal, the young women walk to seminary. snow: spoke for several minutes about how his son was injured in a bike accident and was left in a coma for days. of these things i testify in the name of jesus christ, amen. and i think that we are going to have to be very strong and firm, we're going to have to be like zina and know—“it's the truth, truth, truth.) recognition of his increasingly embarrassing position, he finally concedes that, okay, "thou" might be obsolete - but that that is precisely why we should use it for "the language of prayer"!"in a follow-up letter transmitted friday to elder oaks explaining why he decided to speak openly about their confidential conversations, benson said, 'i feel you violated the trust and faith between not only you and me, but between the church leadership and the members at large. kimball taught: “two individuals approaching the marriage altar must realize that to attain the happy marriage which they hope for they must know that marriage … means sacrifice, sharing, and even a reduction of some personal liberties. but if he did, and if he gave a directed verdict ."you further acknowledged that you later talked directly to elder packer and told him that you felt it was wrong and violated church disciplinary procedure for elder packer to have been in contact with president heinz. a 1992 ensign article, constitutional scholar, former law professor, former utah supreme court justice and (since 1984) lds apostle dallin oaks explained that one of the key, inspired points of the us constitution was the balance of powers between the federal government and the states. from deceptive dallin: what oaks has said in private, vs. his example applies to all writings on church history and biography:? then mentioned how we cannot hang our faith on visits from heavenly messengers, noting how laman and lemuel turned away after seeing an angel.--he defends the book of mormon before apologist crowds--but when out of the spotlight isn't its exactly a gung-ho cheerleader. in 2000, he married kristen mcmain, both of whom are sealed to him for time and all eternity--contrary to the 'ancient order of marriage'). of you have heard me talk about the need for a return to virtue. i will approach the question of the historicity of the book of mormon from the standpoint of faith and revelation. tell the truth is a general religious obligation, whether we are sworn or not. 'he has taken a confidential meeting where he had repeatedly assured me that he would never speak of subjects we were discussing . sad that the lds leadership must continually find ways to attack gay and lesbian families and individuals. what do i know about a higher power, and what is just mental static, courtesy of tscc? simpson said something that has stuck with me ever since:There are those who associate high calling in the church with guaranteed rights to the blessings of heaven, but i wish to declare without reservation that the ultimate judgment for every man will be on the simplest terms, and most certainly on what each has done to bless other people in a quiet, unassuming way. oaks justifies this with "the importance we attach to the law of chastity. single young friends, we counsel you to channel your associations with the opposite sex into dating patterns that have the potential to mature into marriage, not hanging-out patterns that only have the prospect to mature into team sports like touch football. unless a divorced member has committed serious transgressions, he or she can become eligible for a temple recommend under the same worthiness standards that apply to other members. finally with dh's new pay, my pay we made 1/2 of what he had made previously." if you really are fighting for eternal principles, shouldn't you be fighting for monogamous marriage and polygyny? next paragraph is perfect from what comes later:"as members of the church, we have the gift of the holy ghost. and the 0 that we had been paying was finally breaking down and lying to a new landlord and saying we only had 3 kids! i tell you this before you scoff to yourself and think, "i'm glad a loser like her is out of my church anyway. readers of history and biography should ponder that moral reality as part of their effort to understand the significance of what they read.) in localities where his church lacks the legal authority to marry, such as germany, members are required to legally marry before performing the standard religious solemnization rituals. out this counsel to young single women:If you are just marking time waiting for a marriage prospect, stop waiting. it has been a great journey and i wouldn’t trade one minute of it. president ezra taft benson said:The constant and most recurring question in our minds, touching every thought and deed of our lives, should be, “lord, what wilt thou have me to do? family relationships wouldn't be impaired if family members who believe in the church's doctrine would mind their own business. as issues of integrity become more and more problematic in a cutthroat competitive society, those looking for answers will look more and more to institutions and individuals who get it right and can be trusted. in every church, in every person, there’s a shallow territory usually explained away through context.**oaks in his farms banquet speech:"in these remarks i will seek to use rational argument, but i will not rely on any proofs. it is all the more significant, then, what a hash elder oaks makes of his defense of it. i am so happy to be here with my husband steve. those who rely on scholarship, faith, and revelation are willing to look at the entire spectrum of issues, content as well as vocabulary, revelation as well as excavation." ("news reports distorted facts, elder oaks says," dallin oaks, the daily universe, 25 october 1993, p. children raised by same gender parents will be disadvantaged, even victimized, by the societal attitude fostered by the lds church against same gender couples and parents. he stressed that benson at least three times had assured him and maxwell that their meetings--initiated by a kindly letter to benson from maxwellwere confidential and would never be publicly discussed. it's contrary to what i know of elder packer and the way he operates.--efforts at obstruction by utah’s mormon church of national civil rights legislation designed to grant equality to blacks in broad areas of daily life--. course, oaks was just restating an argument that the church had already asserted in the march 1980 ensign when it gave various, detailed arguments against the proposed equal rights amendment. oaks defends joseph destroying the press monday, aug 1, 2005, at 07:49 am original author(s): helemon topic: dallin h.’ this appeared in the officially published ‘deseret news' and ‘journal of discourses,’ and morgan became an lds general authority a year after a salt lake city mob lynched an african-american male on a lamp-post in 1883 for killing an lds bishop. the last chapter of the gospel of john, we read of jesus’ charge to peter as the two walked along the seashore:Then peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom jesus loved following. in so doing they are savoring a pickle, rather than eating a delicious and satisfying dinner of several courses. (see "cracks in the temple: mormon unity in peril," paul brinkley-rogers, "arizona republic," 11 october 1993, sec. i met with oaks and maxwell, i asked them (from an outline of questions i brought with me) "why the [mormon] church [was] not more open with its own historical documents, specifically as relating to the refusal of the church to acknowledge the existence of, or share with, law enforcement authorities the mclellin papers during the hofmann investigation. mcmullin (1)   · kerry muhlestein (9)   · kerry shirts (6)   · kinderhook plates (6)   · kirtland bank (6)   · kirtland egyptian papers (17)   · l.), everything, into the informal form of address of every language of which i am aware. holy ghost is like a burning in the bosom - but not according to oaks monday, feb 2, 2009, at 08:08 am original author(s): measure topic: dallin h.--a flubbed opportunity for high mormon leaders to come clean on the hofmann case."on saturday, the 'daily herald' printed, on the front page, the complete text of a letter from oaks explaining his position and actions on the matters. but to everyone’s surprise, he was still in the race. the lds church wants to maintain status quo:No marriages for gay and lesbian members. if we will use our spiritual powers of discernment, we will not be misled by the lies and half-truths satan will circulate in his attempts to deceive us and to thwart the work of god. and young woman, please understand that if you dress immodestly you are magnifying this problem by becoming pornography to some of the men who see you. if the decisions of federal courts can override the actions of state lawmakers on this subject, we have suffered a significant constitutional reallocation of lawmaking power from the lawmaking branch to the judicial branch and from the states to the federal government. i was torn between remaining quiet (thereby preserving a confidentiality agreement) or setting the record straight (thereby exposing oaks' act of calculated deception). when the publication honored that correction and made no comment on it, steve benson accused me of lying in public and participating in a cover-up, and the wire-service coverage of this episode has inaccurately portrayed me as deliberately making false statements in public.] dunn has a natural communications link, though an outdated one; elder packer does not. i once again am reminded of the pain the mormon church leaves in its wake.: --"uh, i was trying to help steve benson in a matter, a church matter, that does not concern the subject of our interview. rather than agitate oaks even more, however, i tried a softer, more conciliatory approach--even as i again chided him for refusing to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help him god.' attention was also drawn to moroni 10, which speaks of gifts of the spirit (to one is given one gift; to someone else is given another, etc). blacks were prohibited from eating at the lunch counter of salt lake's city-county building. now, however, he is married to them both at the same time while temporarily waiting to hook up with the two of them later in life (as in mormon eternal life). it lead to higher poverty levels and de facto single parenthood for the majority of women who faithfully entered polygamous marriages. oaks urged mormon parents to limit their children's extracurricular activities. indeed, it seems plausible that hinckley--who had a well-known reputation and interest in positive media spin in behalf of the mormon church--might have concluded that having oaks resign would have been a far worse public relations disaster than the pr problem created by the fact that oaks had criticized his senior in the quorum of the twelve packer. there is no duty to reveal all and when one has not made an affirmative statement implying that all has been revealed, it is simply incorrect to equate silence with lying. have been several instances where the church has been in trouble for civil rights violations. understand the context of the question, it is necessary to review events at the time, as reported in the press., there in a rental car in salt lake city, for the first time, i revealed what oaks had shared with me in our september 24th meeting, pointing out the contradictions to what i had just heard on the tape. so, to any believing latter day saint involved in legislative efforts, i ask: what would it take for current church policies to change? this the best the mormons can do--appoint a consumate, amoral apologist? during our brief chat, oaks was very cryptic in his comments, saying nothing of substance about the hofmann scandal., i fear that dallin oaks will be the ruin of this church. i would have the clear moral obligation to set the record straight, since refusal to act would do violence to the truth and make me an accessory to the crime. as recently as september, a stake-wide letter in hawaii encouraged members to "contact your elected representatives . since everyone was on vacation in august, he said, there was no one to make decisions during that time frame. they're white-washing the history they teach my kids, omitting previous positions that were dramatically different and today might be considered offensive. in fact, there was nothing on it at all, except for a single newspaper article, the subject of which [benson] could not read, since from where [he] sat, it was upside down. men sustained as prophets, seers and revelators and none of them saw marriage equality coming as an issue just a decade or so in advance? i am of pioneer stock and all of my family members are very active in your church. when we have a duty to disclose, we are morally responsible to do so. my statement to the reporter was corrected before it was published. can't listen to a prophet who buys false documents monday, aug 19, 2013, at 08:09 am original author(s): jod3:360 topic: dallin h. the work that you do is important, it is well-known and it is appreciated."as i noted in earlier correspondence, i feel you lost the benefit of confidentiality when you knowingly dissembled in public about what you told me in private. i think that not having an extended family is better than having a very hurtful, caustic one.' he said that 'it was a mistake for packer to meet with heinz and a mistake for heinz to ask for the meeting. i did not relish the prospect of being accused of breaking a promise; at the same time, i could not stand by silently, given what i knew. the class member said that after describing her difficulties to her friend, all the friend could do was put her arm around her shoulder and weep. protections like filters on internet connections and locating access so others can see what is being viewed. for oaks, truth, honesty and integrity are of little value.--overview of the mormon church cover-up on the hofmann bombings. majority of his talk was on subjects unrelated to easter. maxwell said it best, “we not only regard you as the seedbearers of a celestial culture to come, but our own journey can be hastened by your pressing forward. smith's father, hyrum, had been murdered by a mob and was thus naturally very sensitive to the potential negative contents of the papers. he somehow twisted this into an lesson of how we must not lose or short spiritual memory and how we cannot rely on our long term memories, such as our mission experience, to keep us going strong." ("cartoonist says oaks lied to protect fellow apostle," vern anderson, associated press, in salt lake tribune, 12 october 1993, sec. 7, i received another 'personal and confidential' letter from steve benson thanking me for calling the reporter 'to clarify your earlier statements., if you are jesus, and married to both mary magdalene and elizabeth (and likely others) [teaching unique to early mormon apostles, most notably jedediah grant, orson hyde, and brigham young]. many of the 1,000+ government benefits of "civil marriage" would help these families and their children. there are many lessons and each is custom fit to you. if after the meal you leave hungry, feeling you haven’t gotten your money’s worth, it’s your own fault.: "and i'm a truthful man and i care for my integrity and, uh, and i, i take no, uh, no little, uh, concern for something like this.”4 your lives of preparation, righteousness, courage and purity will change the world! dunn (5)   · pbs documentary the mormons (20)   · persecution (9)   · pioneer day (3)   · plan of salvation (5)   · polygamy (60)   · priesthood blessings (1)   · priesthood executive meeting (0)   · primary (1)   · proclamations (1)   · proposition 8 (21)   · proposition 8 comments (11)   · quentin l. polygamous arrangement for oaks, of course, is due to the mormon church's on-going doctrinal practice of performing secret polygamous marriages in its contemporary temples. oaks would have us believe that the news media suppressed the true meaning of the word. utah law also prohibited marriage between a white person and a black (including persons only one-eighth negro)."second, oaks said he had no knowledge that packer met with heinz. comments in this talk also confirm what i have heard ? i think about those kinds of things, and then i think about what we've been asked to do..I was told that we needed to quit our job (that we had looked for 6 months for, moved ourselves 1200 miles to accept, and dh was moving up the "chain"), and move back home with family (his folks were on church assistance for health reasons, his brother the church was paying to keep on a mission, his married sister and bil were between jobs. so i imagine it's good that i watched this, because i've been away long enough, that i forgot how sneakily manipulative this lds doctrine is.' the church president's diary did not indicate whether he endorsed or opposed this activity, but his brother nicholas g."on the other hand, there are constraints on trying to reveal everything.." he then brought in an example of perspective from an audrey hepburn movie, african queen as if show he was in touch with culture two main characters trying to reach lake victoria by boat don't realize how close they are because their perspective is obscured by the growth around them)."benson added that elder oaks referred to elder packer when saying, 'you can't stage manage a grizzly bear."'we have those critics who appear to wish to cull out of a vast panorama of information those items which demean and belittle some of the men and women of the past who worked so hard in laying the foundation of this great cause. the time of oaks' reported offer of resignation from the quorum of the twelve hinckley was, in fact and for all intents and purposes, running the mormon church--given that my grandfather and president of the church ezra taft benson was both mentally and physically incapacitated to the point where he was not able to administer the affairs of lds inc. earlier, as both church president and governor, he had instructed the utah legislature in 1852 to legalize the slavery of african-americans. even by the time of shakespeare and the kjv it was falling out of use in se, and i know for a fact that some linguists believe that the only reason shakespeare used it so often in his plays (whereas contemporaries like ben jonson used it rarely) was that he (supposedly) hailed from warwickshire, where it was still a part of the dialect. one element is that we’re emerging from a period of history writing within the church [of] adoring history that doesn’t deal with anything that’s unfavorable, and we’re coming into a period of “warts and all” kind of history. further revealed to the church-owned "deseret news" that his decision to meet with heinz had been made through a lower-ranking church middleman. next ward, we paid our tithing, much to the woes of my dh who has never had a "testimony" of tithing., i guess serving as president of byu really reinforced his perception of quality education. he also spoke about bullying and the "permanent" psychological damage that bullying can cause children by making them feel "worthless, unloved, or unwanted.: "let me just, uh, let me just say this"--. i appreciated your explanation of the current situation with 'student review."benson said he was making his letter to oaks public because he was fed up with church leaders shading the truth. lie is most effective when it can travel incognito in good company or when it can be so intermarried with the truth that we cannot determine its lineage. so i did - but now my job didn't pay as much as the births had, so we needed to have the house payment made - my job only covered the utilities. when that happens, the one who is wronged should balance current disappointments against the good of the past and the brighter prospects of the future. i absolutely did not instruct him to hold a disciplinary counsel and did not then, nor have i ever, directed any verdict. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ i didn't know i would be spending my easter with a large congregation watching a satellite broadcast of three people on subjects other than easter. notes that “president young's published sermon gave official encouragement for mormons to kill black men,” adding that, in quinn’s opinion, young was therefore “morally responsible for this 1866 murder."according to my notes taken during the meeting, oaks admitted that heinz 'called and asked for a meeting' with packer. no, i played the tape for steve of, uh, our interview, you know, after the interview and i noticed that he looked sort of surprised by it. the king was above public criticism and that statements critical of the government were forbidden, according to the english court of the star chamber. spoke of the fun he had asking his son afterwards what day it was, knowing his son would always get it wrong because he had lost his short term memory."third, elder oaks misleadingly insisted that for elder packer to have had contact with president heinz ran counter to elder oaks' personal knowledge of both elder packer and his approach. in 2000, he married kristen mcmain, both of whom are sealed to him for time and all eternity--contrary to the 'ancient order of marriage')."in that meeting, i asked oaks if kerry heinz, toscano's stake president, had any contact with boyd k. when we have a duty to disclose, we are morally responsible to do so. speaking of elder packer, he told me, 'you can't stage manage a grizzly bear. what “principle” could erase the very distinction on which his entire talk depends for its point? these were cultured, refined men and women gave up everything because they knew the gospel was true. are just a bunch of wussies who can't handle rejection! admitting to having met with heinz to discuss toscano, packer assured the press, "we talked doctrine and philosophy. oaks, an apostle of the church, spoke about family, the value of life, and the importance of loving everyone - all worthy subjects. i therefore felt it my moral obligation to break the silence that otherwise would have served only to perpetuate falsehood and false faith. sometimes we are silent because the lord has confided in us, and we know we are not appointed to be the means of disseminating the knowledge to others., with his english translation, helped to start changing this situation. in a marriage relationship, festering is destructive; forgiving is divine (see d&c 64:9–10). and since when is religious freedom the dominating civil liberty? they all take the whole month off because they 'work so hard all year during the week and spend their weekends going to regional conferences, building dedications, etc. atonement is evil (wilford woodruff: "this church views the shedding of human blood with the utmost abhorrence"). and then she wrote, “i gently closed the door and faced an unknown future. and that should settle the matter for all faithful latter-day saints."in conclusion, while elder oaks portrays himself as an innocent victim in this regrettable affair, he has (1) admitted privately the facts concerning the packer-heinz-toscano case, (2) falsified publicly about those facts, (3) retracted one of his untrue statements under threat of exposure and (4) refused to disclaim other statements of his that are demonstrably untrue.: "and i'm glad to defend whatever remains, but i cannot defend that sentence., in his oaks-sanctioned book, 'victims: the lds church and the mark hofmann case' (p. power of hope expressed in these examples is sometimes rewarded with repentance and reformation, but sometimes it is not. same day his defensive commentary ran in "the salt lake tribune," it also appeared up in the church-owned campus newspaper, "the daily universe. on october 16, 1993, the following article appeared:"sitting in his office in the lds church administration building, elder dallin h. so in order to get results or dates here on this campus or any campus or anywhere there are young single adults, you have to redesign the structure for the intended results.: "and the sentence is this, about having a conversation: 'so, if elder packer is having any conversation with kerry heinz'"--.: --"and it was one of those things, which called to my attention, is inaccurate and i want to correct it."after receiving the letter, elder oaks said, he reviewed the transcript of his interview with the reporter and found he couldn't defend his comment about having no knowledge of packer meeting with heinz. on sunday he announced he had requested his name be removed from the rolls of the mormon church. i was sad to realize how untrue the church was, after reading the church's early documents. said that the whole question of this portion of the investigation centered on whether hofmann even had the mclellin papers."except, if you are joseph smith, in which case you can secretly practice polygamy to girls as young as 14, and also be married to women who are already married to other men. so if you love your kids, your family members, then chastening them is fine. oversimplification and apparent demonization of those who have left the church was a piling on after sister reeves, 2nd counselor in the relief society presidency, told members that she had read a study that proved statistically that the primary reason return missionaries left the church was due to immorality and failure to read their scriptures on a daily basis. insistence that marriage between a man and a woman is an eternal principle the only way this can be true, given the lds practice of polygamy, is based on a hyper technical parsing of "a man and a woman" to mean "a man and a woman, and the same man and another woman, and the same man and another woman. where there is no duty to disclose, we have two alternatives.’ in 1967, apostle benson also approved the use of one of his talks as the forward to the overtly racist book ‘black hammer’, which featured the decapitated (and profusely bleeding) head of an african-american male on its cover. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ there is something else in the “dating versus hanging out” ensign article that got my attention. oaks says in effect, "'thou' is formal" and "'thou' is informal"..Nations that had no divorce law have adopted one, and most nations permitting divorces have made them easier to obtain. oaks said the mormon church was concerned the papers mclellin had purloined would turn out to be very negative and reflect poorly on the church. the fall of 1985, a few days after the hofmann bombings, i accompanied chuck kelly (a reporter from the "arizona republic"), to salt lake city to assist him in making contacts for covering the story. praise each child individually for what that child is, and help him or her escape our culture’s obsession with comparing, competing, and never feeling we are “enough.."'" [unless you have the audacity to question, abandon and then speak against mormonism! he said,“during the space of time which intervened between the time i had the vision and the year eighteen hundred and twenty-three—having been forbidden to join any of the religious sects of the day, and being of very tender years, and [being] persecuted by those who ought to have been my friends.. and he was even adamant as to whom we should sell our house to!"meanwhile, in phoenix, pulitzer prize-winning cartoonist steve benson expressed frustration over what he sees as high-ranking church officials twisting the truth and deceiving members. when a newspaper publishes something that it later realizes to have been incorrect, does it apologize to its readers for 'lying' or does it just print a correction? in utah, we attempted to get an audience with oaks. he said that if the "universe" printed my reply, "the general authorities might shut us down. trespassing on church-owned property (arrests of 2 gay men found on church property, and the church owns a lot of property). he simply ends up declaring, as though hopefully to make the conundrums he gets himself into in this talk magically, instantly vanish:Andgt;andgt;but the history of english usage is not the point. this preparation continued in his hotel room well into the night before his talk.. we had just bought a house, which because of the number of kids we had (6) we were actually saving 0/mo! seems strange for a mormon to criticize marriages he considers "non-traditional", considering that mormons were polygamous. it was these papers that were the subject of my conversation with oaks and maxwell. you see, i have been studying this issue for a lot of years. packer, "even though general authorities of the church are free to contact or respond to local leaders on any subject, i felt there may be some sensitivity about his request. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ 20 years ago, i read a fascinating book, the life of mahatma gandhi, by louis fischer. lies of public officials may be the most damaging lies in terms of the number of people that they mislead and the consequences of the deception. he refused to grant a newspaper interview but did agree to meet with me in his office. don't know what compelled me to watch this oppressive double-think. oaks [mormon apostle]: in his introduction, he spoke rather condescendingly of the way others celebrate easter: "this conference is not exclusively for easter. the trouble is, oaks had told me that the mormon church already was aware of the collection's contents when it refused to cooperate with the subpoena--because it had concluded they were not relevant to the hofmann investigation and therefore off-limits to the police for purposes of their criminal probe.: --"then i'll stand by the transcript of things that i said to you, but that statement, 'i have no knowledge of whether he did'"--. hinckley, “this is the work of the master,” ensign, may 1995, 71]. he once said that even if a hundred popes were to announce something, their opinions on faith shouldn't be accepted unless they squared with holy writ. and since when is religious freedom the dominating civil liberty?"you responded: 'as for elder packer, elder packer does not have a specific responsibility for any area in the church . were people lynched and their genitals stuffed in their mouths? 7, i faxed him a second letter, thanking him for taking the opportunity to clarify his earlier statements. seems to think that he is not responsible for what he says. i am not saying that women should not be doctors or lawyers or any particular occupation that fits their circumstances. i feel compelled to let you know the actions your words have caused in my life. readers of history and biography should ponder that moral reality as part of their effort to understand the significance of what they read. if you choose not to do so within the next 24 hours, i will have no choice but to undertake that obligation myself.: "and, and i, uh, [steve] also says some things in his letter which he may share with you, i don't know"--., there were no church leaders available at the time to work with the police on the mclellin paper caper, because the church personnel authorized to do so were all on vacation. the next thing was to call on family - again, ummmmm, nope, no go. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ for those who say polygamy is "behind us" or "not doctrinal" or a "blip of history" let me quote dallin oaks at a byu devotional, jan 29, 2002:"when i was 66, my wife june died of cancer. we should address prayers to our heavenly father in words which speakers of that language associate with love and respect and reverence and closeness."may i emphasize that i came to you with no hidden agenda. the lds church is what lawyers call a "deep pocket" and they will likely need protection from being sued. that is near to what it would have sounded like to the contemporaries of its writers.” so as we think about making transitions and moving out of our comfort zones, think about those men and women." yet consider various mormon policies that have changed over the years:Polygamy is required to gain the highest level of exaltation (brigham young: "if you desire with all your hearts to obtain the blessings which abraham obtained, you will be polygamists at least in your faith, or you will come short of enjoying the salvation and the glory which abraham has obtained.”as american views began changing toward race relations from the 1940s onward, the mormons of utah continued to follow the example of lds leaders against civil rights for african-americans. if i have a question regarding hinckley’s “i don’t know” statements wouldn’t an answer by anyone other than hinckley only be their opinion?"i mention first what is probably the most important of the great fundamentals of the united states constitution-the principle of popular sovereignty". he also said that women should look for inexpensive and simple dates and not expect expensive ones and certainly not dates that could lead to relationships, at least not until several dates later. there’s a husband-wife privilege, there’s a priest-penitent privilege, and so on., use of the kjv, and the use of kjv language for mormon prayers, must be defended in whatever way possible - even in ways which make no sense, which are contradicted not only by the facts of history but by the scriptures themselves (as suggested above), and even by statements within the very talks of people trying to defend them - like dallin oaks' "the language of prayer". he once said to a priest, “ere many years, i will cause a boy that driveth a plough to know more of the scriptures than thou dost”. oaks will be the ruin of this church wednesday, feb 9, 2011, at 07:36 am original author(s): lostandfound topic: dallin h. likewise, 72 percent of salt lake city's hotels and 49 percent of its motels refused accommodations to african-americans that year. so, the obsolete "thou" can be appropriated to this end, despite the fact it was always - and is still, where used - the informal form. the first few months we were married i burned everything, even grilled cheese sandwiches. as each "because" (just as we have seen in oaks' own talk) evaporates under scrutiny, another "because" replaces it. moreover, prior to the interview, i did not speak to brinkley-rogers about what oaks and maxwell had told me concerning the packer/ toscano matter in my meeting with them on september 24th. other languages have honorific forms of address that signify great respect, such as words used only when speaking to a king or other person of high rank. we are tempted daily to elevate ourselves above others and diminish them. fear was expressed that if the 'universe' published contrary to the wishes of the brethren, it might be shut down. as you purify your life you can, in effect, reach out and take his hand, he will lead you to a place better than you can comprehend. those conversations, oaks confessed to the actual circumstances surrounding the excommunication of toscano, then expected me to cover for him after he lied in public about what we had privately talked in this regard. heck, even the niv would be better than the kjv for accuracy." ("cartoonist says oaks lied to protect fellow apostle," vern anderson, by "associated press," in "salt lake tribune," 12 october 1993, sec. didn't hear back from oaks, except when i read what he was now saying to the press. for example, the power to make laws on personal relationships is reserved to the states."a being that is able to live in fire is a good approximation of the description joseph smith gave of the angel moroni:. all, thanks to your unimpressive effort at historical revisionism, that historic intimidation by the mormon church of blacks is becoming, shall we say, more well-known and more widely condemned all the time."upon hearing oaks' attempted cover for packer, i was dismayed and faxed oaks a letter on oct. lately, i have been struggling mightily with what i believe about god, love, consequence, etc. in 1950, counselor clark added that "anything that breaks down the color line leads to marriage. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ what set me off about oaks' talk was that the over-emphasis on law implicitly advises tbm family members that shunning is an option. so i refused to pay tithing (first time in my life). When do shawn and juliet start dating in psych

Dating with sweaty palms and feet causes

Quotes on Authority – Navigating Discipleship

modern and ancient literature contain many examples of this usage. you may say most positively that “susan is pretty and sandra is bright,” but all susan will remember is that she isn’t bright and sandra that she isn’t pretty.: "if you'd just strike out, 'i have no knowledge of whether he did'"--. i learn that oaks was reportedly willing to make his career as an apostle for the lds inc. disappointing easter: midwest area conference monday, apr 13, 2009, at 09:05 am original author(s): anonymous topic: dallin h. however, this platitude was also a smoke-screen for the worst of what utah mormon leaders had done against african-american rights for the previous 116 years." oaks said it was "a mistake" on packer's part to have agreed to meet with heinz, the latter whom oaks described as "an old seminary man. i truly feel that a return to virtue, meaning chastity and moral purity, would change our society and i also feel that you must be the ones to lead that return. michael quinn (who happens to be gay) offers a devastatingly detailed account of the utah mormon church’s blatant anti-black plan-of-action bigotry.-of-context highlights:To be “true” includes appearing to be what we really are. oaks had then prevaricated on the record about what we discussed. in sympathy with the church's decision to buy these mclellin papers back, oaks noted that president joseph f. serving as a stake missionary, i had the assignment of going each sunday to the utah county jail to teach a sunday school lesson while we were seated on folding chairs in the hallway under the watchful eyes of surveillance cameras."helping elder oaks: the ancient order of marriage," by "peter_mary," 16 october 2009, original emphasis). when the publication honored that correction and made no comment on it, steve benson accused me of lying in public and participating in a cover-up, and the wire-service coverage of this episode has inaccurately portrayed me as deliberately making false statements in public. oaks says that in prayer, “some languages have intimate or familiar pronounsother languages have ‘honorific forms’” but that "both. weakening of the concept that marriages are permanent and precious has far-reaching consequences."third, oaks claimed that if packer met with heinz, it ran contrary to oaks' knowledge of how packer operated. do not use your purchasing power to support moral degradation. to the credit of its editor (who happened to be catholic), the paper published the letter to the editor that "student review" would not touch, along with the following "editor's note":"news stories earlier this month dealt with the resignation from the lds church of 'arizona republic' political cartoonist steve benson. people (often young people) to outright lie is obviously not a great issue to mormon leaders.**oaks in his farms banquet speech:"another way of explaining the strength of the positive position on the historicity of the book of mormon is to point out that we who are its proponents are content with a standoff on this question. thus, laws of marriage and family rights and duties are state laws. uh, uh, it seems to me like it's been very professional and, and i deal with you in that light."oaks declined to discuss what benson said took place in their private discussion.**oaks behind closed doors:In the privacy of maxwell's office, oaks was shown striking parallels between a cross-referenced, color-coded copy of the book of mormon and the text for the "spalding manuscript:" b. claimed that at the time the mormon church brought them out, it realized (apparently, he suggested, for the first time) that they spoke positively and glowingly of the lds church. he made it possible for each of us to repent, to return, to change and to become like him., i don't hold think there is anything particularly unusual, or even wrong, about anyone, including dallin oaks, saying silly things once in awhile."were four little mormon girls blown up in the church at sunday school? oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ the ancient order of marriage is the divinely sanctioned union, recognized by the state, between one man and one woman.: "the sentence is, is toward the end of the interview. packer's involvement in the excommunication of mormon dissenter paul toscano. really wish someone would testify a counter argument to congress. now, i've cleaned my life up and heterosexual monogamy is a big part of what makes me happy and my life stable. and so there is no way to avoid this criticism. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ dallin oaks spoke yesterday on the constitution:"whatever the merits of current controversies over the laws of marriage . the church's growth is being threatened by young single adults who are taking longer and longer to get married. and i appreciate that and i appreciate the opportunity of being able to speak to you as a, on a professional basis and i, i must tell you that i make this phone call because it distresses me when somebody claims that i lie. is the full transcript of the ensuing conversation between oaks (o) and brinkley-rogers (br), taped by brinkley-rogers (which he later allowed me to audio-copy and which copy is currently in my possession). that was in spite of the cult's teaching (and i was a devoted cult member at the time) that joseph smith was the greatest dude, next to jesus. did you know that the word confidence is derived from the latin words “con” and “fideo” which means with faith. but neither the collection itself, nor any part of it, had ever surfaced"). but more careful scholarship shows that the words we now use in the language of prayer were once commonly used by persons of rank in addressing persons of inferior position. will recall from your reading of the book of mormon that an emerging generation of youth “became for themselves” and discounted the teachings and examples of their righteous parents. analogy is so twisted on so many levels, but for one, where was lds during the civil rights marches of the 1960s. all who have been through divorce know the pain and need the healing power and hope that come from the atonement. why don't spend more time addressing you're own shallowness and hyprocrisy instead of lecturing me? thursday, sep 30, 2010, at 09:10 am original author(s): joseph topic: dallin h. the bottom of the barrister's barrelthis is the man--dallin oaks--whom the lds church picks for the quorum of the twelve apostles as its premier legal beagle. oaks said, of course, was that he is married to two living women at the same time tuesday, apr 22, 2008, at 08:05 am original author(s): steve benson topic: dallin h. you said that elder packer had no authority or responsibility to participate in such contact and you told me that you strongly urged elder packer not to engage in such contact in the future. of oaks tuesday, oct 6, 2009, at 09:07 am original author(s): sthilda87 topic: dallin h. holy ghost is like a burning in the bosom - but not according to oaks monday, feb 2, 2009, at 09:05 am original author(s): measure topic: dallin h."in the interest of fairness and accuracy, i requested that 'the universe' provide me an opportunity to reply. hoax/oaks reportedly offered to quit the quorum of the twelve.?"by the same token, some things that are true are not edifying or appropriate to communicate. my father was out of work, my mil was sewing her heart out to try and keep the lights on. "ca girl" reports about ga summer vacationing is true, as directly confirmed by mormon apostle dallin h. all this time you let everyone else continue to think that you’ve already had this “revelation” from god when in truth you simply wanted to get a revelation. they are teaching my children that i am a bad father because i don't believe in god or hold the mormon priesthood. it comes to gay people, the mormon church has repeatedly thrust aside its 11th article of faith, which claims "we claim the privilege of worshiping almighty god according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege; let them worship how, where, or what they may. explains why his lies aren't lies - teaches future church leaders the true order of lying wednesday, aug 2, 2006, at 08:43 am original author(s): lies and damn lies topic: dallin h. just like last conference, i'm not buying into this shit. that is to say he was following what they had said up until 2004 when the church came out and stated its endorsement of a federal constitutional amendment defining marriage as between a man and a woman. on sunday, benson called this paper's managing editor at his home and requested the opportunity to respond to oaks' letter.' you opined that 'it was a mistake for packer to meet with heinz and a mistake for heinz to ask for the meeting."when we know spiritual truths by spiritual means, we can know with the same surety its truthfulness, as a scientist when discovering scientific evidence". those not familiar with hoffman and the forged documents this link may help. they originate with prophets; so did the pentateuch, so did the book of mormon. he told the reporter, 'if elder packer is having any conversation with kerry heinz, it is outside the normal channel."in their effect," oaks said, "they are like the well-known and widely condemned voter-intimidation of blacks in the south that produced corrective federal civil-rights legislation. he told the reporter, 'so, that's all i know about that at this point. by church policy, that is left entirely to local leaders. oaks, if you are so concernedabout this, why are your legislative efforts focused only on gay people? it is also perfectly acceptable to divorce them if they don't take care of themselves, or expect you to take care of them. he really means is more valuable and important than other organizations in society."frankly, i find the differences between what you told me and what you told the press to be irreconcilable and ethically troubling."when you asked that i keep our conversation confidential, i assumed that anything you might subsequently say for the record on the matter would be at least honest, if not complete. if you choose not to do so within the next 24 hours, i will have no choice but to undertake that obligation myself. told me that the mormon church had discovered in mid-march of 1986 that it possessed some mclellin papers--and so publicly announced. lies of public officials may be the most damaging lies in terms of the number of people that they mislead and the consequences of the deception."in conclusion, while elder oaks portrays himself as an innocent victim in this regrettable affair, he has (1) admitted privately the facts concerning the packer-heinz-toscano case, (2) falsified publicly about those facts, (3) retracted one of his untrue statements under threat of exposure and (4) refused to disclaim other statements of his that are demonstrably untrue.--he plays, when called upon, the role of an upfront believer--but his backstage performance paints him as more of a two-faced deceiver. was immediately aware of the bind that oaks had put me in.: --"in a privileged conversation and, as a journalist, you'd understand the privilege. church continues to insist on using “thees” and “thous” in prayer, because to replace them would raise the question of why the church is still then sticking with an archaic bible translation which has been greatly superceded in accuracy and intelligibility by a number of others. inexcusable effort to equate the political resistance mormons have encountered in their designs to deny equal rights to gays with the torturous and brutal racist treatment to which american blacks have been mercilessly subjected for generations was not only breathtakingly inappropriate but factually selective and historically indefensible. collection, contrary to mark hofmann's claims, was eventually determined not to exist. they're full of cherry-picked pearls of wisdom and high-sounding ideals but never address squarely real human life, and they always assume that faithful members or parents are somehow paragons of virtue who would have a right to pontificate the way they do from the tabernacle pulpit. i don't want him to be shunned and manipulated by family members the way i was. at the end of our time together i asked them to tell me what their typical day was like. classic quotes from the article:Men, if you have returned from your mission and you are still following the boy-girl patterns you were counseled to follow when you were 15, it is time to grow up. the fall of 1985, a few days after the hofmann bombings, i accompanied a reporter from 'the arizona republic,' chuck kelly, to salt lake city to assist him in making contacts for covering the story.: "now, he had, the reason i had to ask that is that he had the manuscript that was our interview. fear was expressed that if the 'universe' published contrary to the wishes of the brethren, it might be shut down. i spoke at length with family, friends and colleagues--seeking advice and weighing my options. other than that, the mormons are absolutely correct in defending the "ancient order of marriage. you can't see the palpable irony of invoking as an example of fighting alternative marital lifestyles people who. but there are other methods and values, too, and we must not be so committed to scholarship that we close our eyes and ears and hearts to what cannot be demonstrated by scholarship or defended according to physical proofs and intellectual reasoning. my sincerity of motive, i believe, was evidenced by the fact that, given the problem i faced with reconciling your public and private comments, an opportunity was provided for you to set the record straight..Oaks said mclellin (who became disaffected from the mormon church and eventually left it), had ransacked joseph smith's home while smith was incarcerated and taken several of smith's belongings. oaks said he was 'distressed and astonished' that packer agreed to the meeting. he did not bother to properly support his claim, apart from vague references to an unnamed "scholar" or a supposed "new york times article." (the point, however, was not highlight differences between the book of mormon and other texts but, rather, to get answers regarding their similarities and/or identicalness in areas of story lines, wording, etc). thus, laws of marriage and family rights and duties are state laws.: we should follow the spirit in determining how much we shun disobedient children tuesday, oct 6, 2009, at 11:54 am original author(s): bamboom topic: dallin h. i will teach him how loving family members treat each other through my unconditional love for him. classic quotes from the article:Men, if you have returned from your mission and you are still following the boy-girl patterns you were counseled to follow when you were 15, it is time to grow up. that option was negated, he said, when hofmann plea-bargained in july. that’s an illustration of the fact that not everything that’s true is useful to be shared. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ but, to a lot of non-mormons out there (like potential employers and future colleagues), that isn't necessarily a positive. two weeks after we moved into our new house (a hud repo with lots of work needed), dh's job unexpectedly lost funding. in 1950, counselor clark added that "anything that breaks down the color line leads to marriage.'s just so obvious how much it's a practised technique, all the techniques you pick up in cheesy business seminars that teach you how to 'win friends and influence people'. we can try making it through a day without a single self-reference that draws attention to ourselves."honest investigators will conclude that there are so many evidences that the book of mormon is an ancient text that they cannot confidently resolve the question against its authenticity, despite some unanswered questions that seem to support the negative determination. but to achieve this, you must work very hard, save, be wise, and be alert. but ultimately, what else can one conclude from what he said? he said the church decided it would wait until those proceedings were over, then produce them before trial. the interest of equal time, i contacted the "universe" and requested that my response to oaks (the one also originally printed in "the salt lake tribune") also be published in the byu student newspaper. i highlighted his false on-the-record statements, so that there could be no misunderstanding. packer, also a member of the council of the twelve, talked with local stake president kerry heinz, who later presided over a disciplinary council that excommunicated church critic paul toscano. i asked to visit with some young women prior to training their leaders."(one wonders why the conflict between oaks' surprise over the packer-heinz meeting and packer's public statement that the twelve authorized that meeting. that knowledge does not come from books or scientific proof. i'm trying to de-tox them and he's trying to get them to spread the poison anew. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ i really wish someone would testify a counter argument to congress. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ on september 8, 1998, mormon church president, prophet, seer and all-around present-day designated revelator/doctrinal determinator gordon b. however, this platitude was also a smoke-screen for the worst of what utah mormon leaders had done against african-american rights for the previous 116 years. so if books are all worthless at finding out about god, that means the book of mormon is worthless as well. was reminded that except for some minor variations--such as the oft-repeated phrase, "and again"--it was, for all intents and purposes, word-for-word. we have a vivid illustration of this in the recent media excitement about the word 'salamander' in a letter martin harris is supposed to have sent to w. oaks' public praise of farms with his behind-the-scenes digs at farms just a few weeks earlier. it reads: “we must be willing to give up the life we have planned in order to have the life that is waiting for us. he also gave tv and radio interviews on this subject. i think that not having an extended family is better than having a very hurtful, caustic one. 'i had to let elder oaks walk a plank of his own making. expressed concern that packer's involvement with heinz might lead toscano "to sue the church" over violation of his ecclesiastical procedural rights. oaks on the absolute power of the gift of discernment wednesday, jun 7, 2006, at 07:24 am original author(s): silence dogood topic: dallin h. so if you love your kids, your family members, then chastening them is fine. perhaps some young adults, especially men, have carried that wise counsel to excess and determined not to date before 26 or maybe even 36. were a total of 8 articles that directly or indirectly talked about marriage, dating or keeping the family together. early mormon leaders considered polygamy an eternal principle, far more important than the law of the land. they are teaching my children that i am not "worthy" (as if their church has any right to decide that for a non-believer), and to seek elsewhere for support and encouragement. each of us the lord might say as he did to moses, “i have a work for thee ."when oaks chose to publicly dissemble, he violated my trust and that of the church at large., the mormon church was more interested in doing what was necessary to cover its backside, rather than assisting when it was necessary in uncovering the truth., we may have a positive duty to keep many things secret or confidential., would someone in the media call this so called church out?” and then the scripture relates and emphasizes our need for each other and for the strength we receive from each other. reuben clark used the word [rhymes with ‘trigger’] in his first presidency office diary. such unrighteous oppression of women was rejected by the savior, who declared:“moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. maxwell) i had closed-door conversations in the church administration building about a wide range of topics. the mormon church having recently disciplined the infamous "september six" for activities relating to scholarship and feminism, speculation was rampant that packer had been "behind the church's recent crackdown on dissidents. they can't bring in converts so they have to depend on home growing the numbers in the churcha and it just ain't happenin'. but that can’t happen without calling into question the reliability of the charismatic joseph, and thus the authority of his church. i want you to know that when we got engaged he pinned me with his future farmers of america pin. winning the race requires runners to go all night as well as all day, just like cliff young. you are gathered here in this university and this valley sheltered from the world. oaks has the absolute gall to compare themselves to the same persecution the african american community had in the past? can have the priesthood (joseph smith ordained elijah abel in 1832). i never saw this at this level with mormon families. [see oaks, 'religious freedom,' in 'newsroom: the official (mormon) church resource for news media, opinion leaders, and the public,' transcript of oaks' speech at byu-idaho, rexbury, 13 october 2009). the time of oaks' reported offer of resignation from the quorum of the twelve hinckley was, in fact and for all intents and purposes, running the mormon church--given that my grandfather and president of the church ezra taft benson was both mentally and physically incapacitated to the point where he was not able to administer the affairs of lds inc. we have some apostles and prophets on record as saying the holy ghost causes a burning in the bosom, but oaks on record saying it does no such thing! in so doing they are savoring a pickle, rather than eating a delicious and satisfying dinner of several courses.: spiritual knowledge is different than regular old knowledge sunday, apr 6, 2008, at 09:02 am original author(s): lincoln topic: dallin h. what if the b tithing were diverted to cancer research? two years later--a year and a half ago--i married kristen mcmain, the eternal companion who now stands at my side. your perspective, please listen as i try to speak plainly about the effects of divorce on the eternal family relationships we seek under the gospel plan. she had the confidence to leave her comfort zone, so to speak, because of her faith and testimony. oaks would have been criticizing tyndale, wycliffe, and the kjv translators if he’d lived several centuries ago. also took his "battle of wounded me" to the brigham young university campus, where attention focused on keeping the hearts and minds of the rising generation in line.”6 elder maxwell observed, “lowering standards in the rising generations can create an undertow that affects all ages. again, you are not ordinary and these are your days! after all was pronounced the king of israel by the saints.: "but he, he claims to have notes of things that i've said in the, in the conversation with him"--."you now have the opportunity to shine your light in the darkness and warm us all through your spiritual courage. the church couldn't refuse medical services in church owned hospitals. williams, president of the naacp's salt lake branch, said there is "no comparison. such techniques speak to many after the manner of their understanding. it has been observed that 'a lie is like a blanket of snow. (oaks needed to do his explaining to the person he had lied to in the interview, not to me). figured that next to jesus, gandhi must be the greatest human being to walk the planet."benson, a sixth-generation mormon and grandson of church president ezra taft benson, wants no longer to be a 'muzzled' member. i found out that the young women had gotten up, some of them at four o’clock in the morning, to go to the river and bath and get the water that was necessary for their mothers to do the cooking. oaks said the book explained the proper context, the role of the mormon church and the facts on the ground regarding the mclellin papers. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ on nov 7, 2006, elder dallin oaks and his wife spoke at the brigham young university? janet peterson, “zina diantha huntington young—angel of mercy,” friend, feb. oaks really wants to read the bible in something like a faithful translation, he could try the rsv (forget what j. made it very clear that the church welfare program was to be used as a last resort. oaks said that the mormon church made a conscious decision not to bring forward the mclellin papers during the preliminaries. civil laws will have to be crafted to protect these citizens. if it is true that different languages use either the formal or informal in addressing god, and then he says that that's appropriate, on what grounds is he arguing that in english, we shouldn't use "you"? fiancés should learn everything they can about the families with whom they will soon be joined in marriage. so might each of you be asked, “who knoweth whether thou art come to [your particular place and circumstances with your unique blend of talents] for such a time as this? oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ but, to a lot of non-mormons out there (like potential employers and future colleagues), that isn't necessarily a positive. you have attempted to hide the truth of joseph smith's polygamy by limiting the influence of historical books. to me, his talk invites tbms to be aggressive in their re-conversion efforts, and that's not what i need my family to hear as i try to get them the heck out of this stupid church. benson's negrophobic rhetoric intensified after the federal civil rights act of 1964 drastically changed utah's patterns of racial discrimination. the church couldn't actively and openly promote hostility, hate and discrimmination against gay and lesbian persons without being sued. these children are "disadvantaged" it is only because of the actions and attitudes of individuals, leaders and organizations who have treated these families and less than other families in america. mclellin was, as described by steven naifeh and gregory white smith in their book, 'the mormon murders,' 'an early apostle and close associate of joseph smith's who left the church in 1836 to become one of its bitterest enemies."the idea that all truth is based on scientific evidence is simply untrue. further observes:“there was no mystery about why utah law continued to prohibit interracial marriage. mckay said, ‘the south knows how to handle them and they do not have any trouble, and the colored people are better off down there--[but] in california they are becoming very progressive and insolent in many cases.'s like a porn star who after her career is over proclaims that she fully supports heterosexual monogamy and always has. oaks is said to have seriously considered resigning his position from the quorum of the twelve after it was publicly reported that he had disrespected a senior member of the quorum--in this case, boyd k. the stake high council disciplinary hearing that ultimately sealed his fate, attention was focused on a sunstone symposium speech toscano had recently delivered, entitled, "all is not well in zion: false teachings of the true church," in which toscano was alleged to have made derogatory comments . when a newspaper publishes something that it later realizes to have been incorrect, does it apologize to its readers for 'lying' or does it just print a correction?' reported offer to quit the quorum came, it was said, in the midst of an attempted cover-up on his part designed to hide from public scrutiny the back-room details concerning the excommunication of mormon intellectual paul toscano." i would add my belief that the most fundamental legal and political objection to the proposed e. while i disagree with him in terms of what he thinks those laws should ultimately be, i respect and applaud his statement that the federal government should not be dictating such things to the states, especially in the form of a constitutional amendment. more important is our faithful service in whatever position we are called."i want to personally thank you for calling the 'arizona republic' reporter, mr."along with many others, i see a serious threat to the freedom of religion in the current assertion of a 'civil right' of homosexuals to be free from religious preaching against their relationships. in 2000, he married kristen mcmain, both of whom are sealed to him for time and all eternity--contrary to the "ancient order of marriage. discussion of dallin oaks’ version of the “language of prayer” might take into consideration the language of the kjv, since mormon prayer language seems to be an effort to continue its form of speech. yet, he admitted his mistakes, repented of them and became not only one of the lord's mightiest witnesses, but an example to the rest of us imperfect souls of what it means to be honest and true in christ. was starting to talk to my dad again by phone and email. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ the dalin h oakes talk."i would hope that you would feel it right to publicly set the record straight. in addition, 40 percent of utah's employers refused to hire negroes. oaks this last conference:We must also act to protect those we love.: --"to extort information from me in behalf of you? one of them was zina huntington who later became one of the general presidents of the relief society. so, i stopped paying the bills and paid tithing, only to be told that we weren't worthy enough to receive any help because we weren't being honest with our fellow men! told me that the mormon church had discovered in mid-march of 1986 that it possessed some mclellin papers--and so publicly announced."my duty as a member of the council of the twelve is to protect what is most unique about the lds church, namely the authority of priesthood, testimony regarding the restoration of the gospel, and the divine mission of the savior. i feel the sacrifices they made for us so we can be where we are now. the evidence of how corrupt and unloving the mormon church is has been impossible to ignore lately., two years later, a new bishop, i was his wife's vt. now the fireworks were lighting up the temple square skyline. extended their support of racial segregation to states beyond utah. both shunning and stigmatizing reinforce and call forth each other.: --"into saying anything more than i said to you in the interview by steve benson's use of privileged information. toscano was cited by heinz, his stake president, for criticizing church leaders and acting contrary to the role and order of the church. all priestly opinions had to be accepted just on faith as being accurate expressions of what the bible itself said."in view of all this, and as a matter of intellectual evaluation, why all the excitement in the media, and why the apparent hand-wringing among those who profess friendship or membership in the church? yet even after this celebrated case, colonial governors and assemblies asserted the power to prosecute and even imprison printers for publishing unapproved views. every month that i visited her she would cry praises for the church's welfare program because with out it, she wouldn't be able to feed her kids! how can any discussion of a word's meaning, nuances, etc. i can't give any better explanation than the fact that i was talking a mile a minute and i just said something that on mature reflection i (concluded), "i can't defend the truthfulness of that,"' elder oaks said. the credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.--the utah mormon church’s support of denial of food, hotel and other basic services to utah blacks--. christensen was a professor of nutritional science in the department of nutrition, dietetics, and food science at byu when this devotional address was given on 31 july 2007. uh, uh, it seems to me like it's been very professional and, and i deal with you in that light. in fact, there was nothing on it at all, except for a single newspaper article, the subject of which [benson] could not read, since from where [he] sat, it was upside down. in 1947, when discussing the site of the future los angeles temple, counselor clark asked the lds church's attorney in that area ‘to purchase as much of that property as we can in order to control the colored situation. president ezra taft benson, in his classic talk on pride, said:Another major portion of this very prevalent sin of pride is enmity toward our fellowmen. upon discovering that he had left most of them intact, i concluded he had been provided ample opportunity to set the record straight and had not. grant wrote that ‘the citizens’ hanged ‘the [again, rhymes with “trigger”]."along with many others, i see a serious threat to the freedom of religion in the current assertion of a 'civil right' of homosexuals to be free from religious preaching against their relationships.: "i'm looking at the transcript that was made from the recording when made here. in 1944, the first presidency authorized local lds leaders to join ‘as individuals a civic organization whose purpose is to restrict and control negro settlement’ in salt lake city. jesus chastised those in his time who did “all their works . lord said unto him, well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, i will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord. choosing to leave the mormon faith was a very difficult decision for me. a person who preaches the truths of the gospel 'for the sake of riches and honor' (alma 1:16) commits the sin of priestcraft. you might therefore assume mormons might have some sympathy for those whose marriage ideals diverge from the "norm," but instead they hold their own doctrine as superior to law. this time he was somewhat more willing to talk about the hofmann affair--specifically, why the church had not, even in the face of a law enforcement subpoena, produced the mclellin papers, which it had in its possession., the lds church did have in its possession certain mclellin papers, as admitted by richard e. oaks said that the mormon church made a conscious decision not to bring forward the mclellin papers during the preliminaries. to avoid so-called “incompatibility,” they should be best friends, kind and considerate, sensitive to each other’s needs, always seeking to make each other happy. without suggesting it could not be what it claims to be? the mormon church having recently disciplined the infamous "september six" for activities relating to scholarship and feminism, speculation was rampant that packer had been "behind the church's recent crackdown on dissidents. five days after the phone conversation with the "arizona republic" reporter, oaks publicly admitted that he had not been truthful about his knowledge of packer's involvement in the toscano episode.” most outgrow the terminology, but for many the preoccupation persists. oaks: "disadvantages for children raised by couples of the same gender" tuesday, oct 9, 2012, at 09:34 am original author(s): anonymous topic: dallin h. Free dating sites to find wealthy men | Push Back Against the World | Dallin H. Oaks

Exploring Sainthood – The Standard Works—Why Not Use It?

's missing is where the kid 'living in sin' says not, 'if you loved me you would accept me', but rather, 'who the hell are you to lecture me given some of the things you've done?: "and this is a, is a, uh, oh, about one-fourth of the circumstances that, uh, that, uh, steve cites in his letter, because i looked, uh, i looked at the others and, and, uh, i think that, uh, i, i don't, uh, feel any necessity under my commitment to integrity to make any change in what i said. of mormon doctrines that are not supposedly the product of plagiarism, but of divine revelation. packer's involvement in the excommunication of paul toscano and alleging that i had broken a confidence in making that charge..In ancient times and even under tribal laws in some countries where we now have members, men have power to divorce their wives for any trivial thing. i am finally free of the guilt i had in keeping my son from my family. adult children should be free to choose their own religious belief system without expecting to be shunned or chastised by their family. we again are instructed in scripture to “seek” and even “covet earnestly the best gifts"3 so that we can assist in building the kingdom here on the earth. packer, "talk to the all-church coordinating council," transcript, 18 may 1993, pp. was not about to sit by and let him get away with it. example, in the aftermath of katrina and the other 2005 gulf coast hurricanes, the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints aided the cleanup efforts with almost 3,000 tons of emergency supplies, over million in cash and use of heavy equipment, and its members gave more than 42,000 man-days of service. asked to explain how moroni used the same language found in the king james version of the bible, written hundreds of years after the book of mormon was recorded, oaks replied that he himself had had the same question while preparing a talk on gifts of the spirit, as outlined in the doctrine and covenants, the book of mormon and the new testament. every month that i visited her she would cry praises for the church's welfare program because with out it, she wouldn't be able to feed her kids! years later, i went to the state, and dh was making too much money for aide, so i went to the bishop again. a lot shorter, had he followed through on his offer and resigned over his dissing of his quorum of the twelve superior and fellow myth-spinner packer.: "if he shows you a copy of his letter"--., there were no church leaders available at the time to work with the police on the mclellin paper caper, because the church personnel authorized to do so were all on vacation. when my mom died and we were dressing her body, my dad took the opportunity as a missionary lesson and said, "if you go to the temple again, you will be able to see her again. you have the power to achieve anything you set your mind to. by church policy, that is left entirely to local leaders. maxwell in september 1993 that reports claiming etb was at that point administering the affairs of the church were not true, given my grandfather's failing health). oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ mormonism is a religion of extremes, nothing is gray, there is just black and white conviction. the vast majority know that many in society, like the lds leadership, are hyper critical of their parenting and therefore strive to be the most competent parents possible."earlier this month, elder oaks spoke with an 'arizona republic' reporter about the recent string of disciplinary councils. we have a vivid illustration of this in the recent media excitement about the word salamander in a letter martin harris is supposed to have sent to w. he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord’s money.: --"into saying anything more than i said to you in the interview by steve benson's use of privileged information. and incidentally, if there is a league table, joseph, in my view, is down at the bottom with the other low-life. leaving the church and utah, i have met many wonderful families.--the utah mormon church’s early and continued support of institutionalized slavery--."one wonders why so many writers neglected to reveal to their readers that there is another meaning of salamander, which may even have been the primary meaning in this context in the 1820s. since mormons claim to have cornered the market on perfect families, this fallacy is even more difficult to digest. oaks, says one thing in the open venue--and another in the backroom office. really wish someone would testify a counter argument to congress wednesday, oct 19, 2011, at 09:19 am original author(s): jesus smith topic: dallin h. the virginia declaration of rights (1776) proclaimed that "the freedom of the press is one of the greatest bulwarks of liberty and can never be restrained but by despotic governments. a reversal of fortunes, efforts by mormonism's highest leaders to discredit and discipline toscano for his fiercely-individualistic views eventually led to the public disgracing of both oaks and packer--men who, behind the scenes, had sought to have toscano muzzled and humiliated--and who spun public untruths about their efforts to do so.: --"was, uh, as i looked back on the transcript, i think that's inaccurate and i want to withdraw that. aren’t the standard works the standard for official church doctrine?, you can still purchase pornography at any marriott hotel, owned by an lds general authority by the same name. elder oaks then compared this person to one of five thousand that jesus fed, many of whom stopped following jesus after he stopped providing food, citing a scripture from the new testament to show that the church is there to provide for our eternal needs. oaks has the absolute gall to compare themselves to the same persecution the african american community had in the past? the stake high council disciplinary hearing that ultimately sealed his fate, attention was focused on a sunstone symposium speech toscano had recently delivered, entitled, "all is not well in zion: false teachings of the true church," in which toscano was alleged to have made derogatory comments . they ignore or gloss over the incredible complexity of the book of mormon record. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ i watched oaks' talk on gay marriage last night and it left me scratching my head.: spiritual knowledge is different than regular old knowledge sunday, apr 6, 2008, at 08:22 am original author(s): lincoln topic: dallin h. he said that if the church had at that time revealed it was in possession of mclellin's papers, the press would have made "a big brouhaha about it. i am sure i did not speak that sentence with intent to deceive, but whether it was an inadvertence or a result of forgetfulness in the context of a long and far-reaching interview, i cannot be sure. he will defend the guilty mormon cult, and has no problem lying on the cult's behalf. after all was pronounced the king of israel by the saints."in their effect," oaks said, "they are like the well-known and widely condemned voter-intimidation of blacks in the south that produced corrective federal civil-rights legislation. if the thing itself is nonsense, it is no wonder defenses of it are as well. earlier, as both church president and governor, he had instructed the utah legislature in 1852 to legalize the slavery of african-americans. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ mormon leaders once again attack gays and lesbians. truth was not a defense to seditious libel because the goal was to prevent and punish all condemnation of the government. you may wonder if you really can continue to push forward with a perfect brightness of hope., told students at brigham young university-idaho in rexburg that latter-day saints "must not be deterred or coerced into silence" by advocates for "alleged civil rights."oaks did not retract other statements in the interview with brinkley-rogers that benson had alleged--and oaks denies--were false or deliberately misleading. instead, christ said to analyze their “fruits”, that is; to analyze the outcome of their work., if you are joseph smith, in which case you can secretely practice polygamy to girls as young as 14, and also be married to women who are already married to other men. ummmm, we were paying 0 less than renting because of the number of kids we had. maybe the lds church could do a 180 and become an agent for helping to foster the enlightenment going on in the attitudes towards homosexuality. soon the members don’t know the difference between lying and honesty anyway.'s successor translator, william tyndale, similarly wished for holy writ to be accessible to the common man. does it need to be a feeling of caloric heat, like the burning produced by combustion? if you want people to leave you alone, you have to leave them alone. that healing power and that hope are there for them and also for their children."benson, a sixth-generation mormon and grandson of church president ezra taft benson, wants no longer to be a 'muzzled' member. october 1st, brinkley-rogers met for a prearranged, on-the-record, taped q and a session with oaks in his salt lake city church office to discuss, among other things, recent church action against the dissenters., we may have a positive duty to keep many things secret or confidential. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ "in order to perform their personal ministries, church leaders cannot be suspicious and questioning of each of the hundreds of people they meet each year. it’s like life in so many respects—making a plan, strict training, hills, a set path, beautiful vistas, training partners, long lonely miles, people cheering, falling and getting back up, injuries, aid stations, and of course a finish line. this commandment has been in place from the very beginning. marriage is sinful (brigham young: "if the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of cain, the penalty, under the law of god, is death on the spot. who love the praise of men more than the praise of god seek to please men more than god, fear to offend man more than they fear to offend god, and are more concerned with what others think of them than with what god thinks. men’s commendation and contempt can lead us from the path of safety. with the ban on the priesthood being extended to blacks, the general population's morality has outdistanced lds thinking regarding homosexuality considerably. 24, oaks had told benson he was 'distressed and astonished' that packer had met with heinz. specifically, was steve on a reconnaissance for you when he asked about two weeks ago for a church interview and came into an interview, in an ecclesiastical setting, which is the occasion of this comparison? the second is from the constitution of the confederate states. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ one presently living in the mormon hereafter and the other presently living on earth. all of us in the pursuit of our duty touch the lives of others."i admire those scholars for whom scholarship does not exclude faith and revelation." he employs a subtle trick attempting to have the membership actually believe that the only way to learn knowledge about spiritual things is from the spirit.); even at the same time they claimed that scriptures were the only word of god, they reserved all right to interpret that word of god; which in effect substituted them for that word of god itself, without acknowledging this was what was happening (and does that sound familiar? 24, we met again with steve benson for about an hour and a half. i will say it now in the name of jesus christ"). virginia that:"under our constitution, the freedom to marry, or not to marry, a person of another race resides with the individual and cannot be infringed by the state.’ this world-famous black woman was not allowed to use the main entrance and lobby. responded quickly, calling my home the same afternoon he received the fax, in an attempt to reach me. oaks blames not turning over subpoenaed evidence in hofmann case on ga vacation schedule. third, your assertion that for elder packer to have talked with president heinz goes against your knowledge of elder packer's modus operandi is contradicted by your admission to me that you knew that elder packer had talked to him and that you later talked with elder packer about it. oaks rant - "so-called same-gender marriage" wednesday, oct 9, 2013, at 09:03 am original author(s): xyandro topic: dallin h. here to visit the main page of the mormon curtain. as well, while oaks' talk isn't specifically about the kjv, mormon defenses of its continued use often rely on the same kinds of arguments used by oaks for defending obsolete language in prayer. the best i can say is that we’re moving with the times, we’re getting more and more forthright, but we will never satisfy every complaint along that line and probably shouldn’t. forward to my meeting with oaks and maxwell in september 1993. in a highly unusual commentary written for that newspaper, published on october 21, 1993, he declared:"on october 12, 16, and 17, the 'salt lake tribune' gave prominent and extensive coverage to wire-service stories on cartoonist steve benson's charges that i 'lied' to an 'arizona republic' reporter in an interview on current controversies over church discipline. or send home deacons if we can see their nipples through the white shirts? they find readers of their works who seem to delight in picking up these tidbits, and in chewing them over and relishing them., what do they do, since they're convinced they know what's best for others? oaks is a hired gun of modest legal skills, excessive ego and stunted morals--a person whose professional abilities have been overhyped by mormons desperate for someone with supposed "smarts" to carry their kooky and corrupt banner. she lived in upstate new york when the missionaries visited their home and left one copy of the book of mormon for the family to read. lds church has now just proclaimed that their religious freedom is now under attack because they were successful in denying civil rights to a minority group? oversimplification and apparent demonization of those who have left the church was a piling on after sister reeves, 2nd counselor in the relief society presidency, told members that she had read a study that proved statistically that the primary reason return missionaries left the church was due to immorality and failure to read their scriptures on a daily basis. the lds president was president of the hotel, and his counselors were its senior vice-presidents. the church couldn't actively and openly promote hostility, hate and discrimmination against gay and lesbian persons without being sued. that letters to the apostles or first presidency are, as a matter of policy, forwarded to the writer’s bishop or stake president so they can address the questions. it read as follows:The church of jesus christ of latter-day saints.’ in other words, the first presidency condemned interracial marriage as abnormal. he is really saying is that less and less people are listening to religious leaders and even. i have no desire to prolong this controversy, but feel it necessary to set the record straight on some important matters omitted or obscured in this attack upon my integrity. williams, president of the naacp's salt lake branch, said there is "no comparison. is just another example of church leaders telling the members what they really think about them ?" ("grandson of president asks to be removed from lds church rolls," jennifer skordas, "salt lake tribune," 11 october 1993, sec. oaks [mormon apostle]: in his introduction, he spoke rather condescendingly of the way others celebrate easter: "this conference is not exclusively for easter. you suggested that although being seperated from family members who are not believing or living all of your church's teachings is painful for the righteous mormons, it is sometimes necessary. to highlight the mistakes and gloss over the greater good is to draw a caricature. he wants the church members to feel the necessity to "confront" their "loved one" who has left the tithing fold. he will defend the guilty mormon cult, and has no problem lying on the cult's behalf. "husbands should regularly tell their wives these four things:4) we can't afford it". he said he becomes concerned when farms 'stops making shields and starts turning out swords,' because, he said, 'you cannot prove the book of mormon out of the realm of faith. we sucked up and put up with the bad credit scores that ensued because of the timing of pay checks. are just a bunch of wussies who can't handle rejection!’ a month later, during the meeting of the first presidency and quorum of the twelve apostles in the salt lake temple, ‘president clark called attention to the sentiment among many people in this country to the point that we should break down all racial lines, [and] as a result of which sentiment negro people have acquired an assertiveness that they never before possessed and in some cases have become impudent. as you make some transitions, and they're difficult, you can pray to him. result was the 1890 manifesto by president willford woodruff which ended the open practice of polygamy. you worry about what i’ve asked you to do. neither of us knew that my blessings would also become steve’s and that steve’s blessings would in turn become mine. this quote has motivated and inspired me many times as i have wondered if what i am doing is worth it.--the utah mormon church’s advocacy of separate blood banks for whites and blacks in order to maintain the "purity" of white mormon blood--. it is all the more significant, then, what a hash elder oaks makes of his defense of it. collection, contrary to hofmann's claims, was eventually determined not to exist. i bear testimony that jesus christ is his son and the head of this church. i won't relay the whole conversation, but at one point he said there are no ga's at the cob in july. oaks really believe that moses produced the pentateuch or that it is known who wrote the, nonsynoptic, gospel of john? the cultural tides in our world run strongly against commitment in family relationships. evident in salt lake city, where a warning to ‘meddle not with white women’ was pinned to the flesh of a murdered black man in 1866. can't help but laugh after reading the above paragraph and then reading these subsequent ones:"another source of differences in the accounts of different witnesses is the different meanings that different persons attach to words." (packer had come up with heinz through the ranks of the church education system). the same should be true of our marriages, and if we seek him, the lord will help us and heal us. light of his above record, would the real dallin oaks please stand up? during world war ii, african-americans wearing their nation's uniform had to sit in the balcony of utah theaters, while german prisoners-of-war sat on the main floor with white servicemen and civilians. the first thing out of his mouth was to sell the house!"in an interview monday evening, oaks declined to confirm or deny most of benson's assertions about a pair of private interviews the church prophet's grandson had in september with oaks and elder neal maxwell, another member of the quorum of the twelve apostles, a body that advises the church's presidency.'s suspected entanglement in the excommunication of toscano became a subject of extensive media coverage in the fall of 1993. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ we all knew it was coming. believe in polygamy, they practice polygamy--and they lie about polygamy. this same sister also admitted that she did not have a bad thought come into her head until about fifteen years ago, when she briefly entertained dirty thoughts at a grocery checkout line after seeing other women pick up sleazy magazines in the line and added them with to their groceries. closed-door conversation, oaks jabs mormonism's premier group of apologetic water carriers being for too strenuous in its defense of book of mormon historicity.' i did not 'lie' to the reporter and, contrary to the wire-service story printed in the october 16 'tribune,' i did not 'admit' to 'falsely telling' the reporter something that was untrue. marriage is not a group activity--at least, not until the children come along in goodly numbers. he wasn’t flashy, he wasn’t sponsored, and he wasn’t fast. all around you is competition” (“a prophet’s counsel and prayer for youth,” ensign, january 2001, 4). america's beloved contralto ‘was allowed to stay at the hotel utah on condition that she use the freight elevator."i would not object to having elder oaks' version of the events printed alongside my letter."in that circumstance, the proponents of the book of mormon can settle for a draw or a hung jury on the question of historicity and take a continuance until the controversy can be retried in another forum. also argued that the church only had between may and august of that year as the available interval in which to get the mclellin papers out., because men are so darned sensitive, if we women aren't kind when we turn down a date, it might hurt the man's feelings so much he won't ask anyone else out. 9 september 1993, in an off-stage meeting with oaks and fellow apostle neal a. if the tbms just got along with their own "happiness"--not letting it be contingent on re-activating or baptizing "wayward" family members--then there would be no problem. your light gives us hope and confidence in the future. he said this caused them to fall because when persons are “looking beyond the mark,” god takes away plainness and gives them what they soughtthings they cannot understand. they don't get hand colored scribbles of "i love you" in the mail. thank you for your talk and especially for the timing of it. this experience with my family, i was so torn about what to do concerning the church.. roberts' study of parallels between ethan smith's "view of the hebrews;" the king james text of the book of isaiah; and the king james text of the new testament--with particular emphasis being placed on the book of mormon timeline from 600 bc to 1 bc, when the words of the new testament had not yet been written.“[in 1963], apostle joseph fielding smith told ‘look’ magazine's editor: ‘”darkies” are wonderful people, and they have their place in our church. was left to all kinds of temptations; and, mingling with all kinds of society, i frequently fell into many foolish errors, and displayed the weakness of youth, and the foibles of human nature; which, i am sorry to say, led me into divers temptations, offensive in the sight of god. other languages have honorific forms of address that signify great respect, such as words used only when speaking to a king or other person of high rank. i suggest you read the entire speech since i have taken some of his remarks out of context below. was the same conversation in which oaks privately confessed to me that boyd k. i can't give any better explanation than the fact that i was talking a mile a minute and i just said something that on mature reflection i (concluded), "i can't defend the truthfulness of that,"' elder oaks said."the reason given by universe staff was that opinions contrary to that of elder oaks would not see print, because of expected opposition from salt lake. that the negro is markedly inferior to the caucasian is proved both craniologically and by six thousand years of planet-wide experimentation; and that the commingling of inferior with superior must lower the higher is just as certain as that the half-sum of two and six is only four.“even after federal emancipation of america's slaves in the 1860s, lds church president brigham young referred to african-american slavery as a religious necessity. weirdest talk in modern gc history: dallin oaks' "language of prayer" tuesday, may 31, 2005, at 08:53 am original author(s): anonymous topic: dallin h. also cautioned that it should be assumed that kids raised by same-sex couples or unwed mothers will be at a disadvantage. the worst was when i incorrectly announced that my prophecy that the "principal ancestors" phrase would be eliminated from future editions of the bom had been fulfilled in the new doubleday version, when it hadn't. since everyone was on vacation in august, he said, there was no one to make decisions during that time frame. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ 20 years ago, i read a fascinating book, the life of mahatma gandhi, by louis fischer. i find this instruction to the members of your church to be hurtful."one wonders why so many writers neglected to reveal to their readers that there is another meaning of 'salamander,' which may even have been the primary meaning in this context in the 1820s."'even though general authorities of the church are free to contact or respond to local leaders on any subject, i felt there may be some sensitivity about this request,' elder packer said. dew (3)   · shields research - mormon apologetics (4)   · sidney rigdon (7)   · simon southerton (34)   · spaulding manuscript (8)   · spencer w. the law was upheld by the supreme court on may 19, 1890, and proved disastrous for the mormons. months later, we finally got a job paying more than he had made before he had been laid off.: "it's, uh, it's in this talk about the kerry heinz matter"--.: "so, i, if you will do me the favor of striking out that, you do whatever you want with what remains. the cover letter read:Re: publishing the attached letter in student review. you might think you know, but if you are not following lds teachings, you are operating contrary to god's law. no calling in this church is small or of little consequence."first, by couching the packer-heinz meeting hypothetically, he falsely implied personal ignorance of whether it occurred."that thank-you note proved to be premature, because i was unaware at the time i wrote it that oaks had not retracted all his falsehoods. sneakily and self-servingly seeking to make mormons blood-brothers with african-americans in both plight and purpose, oaks conveniently left out of his self-pitying speech any mention of the history of the salt lake city-based mormon church’s racially-poisoned pronouncements and actions over the last several decades that specifically targeted utah's african-american community (and, indeed, african-americans across the country) for social isolation, criminal punishment and sweeping denial of equal protection under the law.” the student in his preparation neither sought nor anticipated such praise. if that is the meaning, i have never had a burning in the bosom. he was hired by the mormon cult to be a premanent peddler of deceit. i did not relish the prospect of being accused of breaking a promise; at the same time, i could not stand by silently, given what i knew. without suggesting it could not be what it claims to be? holy ghost is like a burning in the bosom - but not according to oaks. oh how difficult for these godly parents when this 'sinful kid' says, 'if you loved me you wouldn't judge me and you'd accept me as i am'.: "and now he, he has drawn in this letter to me, he's drawn these two things together"--. said one of his own areas of expertise was in legal affairs. if the church keeps getting sued, it is probably not a "freedom of religion" issue." naifeh and smith wrote that "[i]t had long been rumored that mclellin, who kept the minutes at early meetings of the twelve, had taken with him a pirate's chest full of papers, letters and journals, all of it incriminating, with which to destroy the church. lower birth rates as a consequence of alternative marital lifestyles i'm not as positive on this one, but i've seen anecdotal evidence that polygamous women were less fertile than were monogamous women living in utah. and in the end, there is nothing else, except "because". and this rule still applies to the freedom of speech in the church as evidenced by simon's ordeal. but it isn't that "thou" has "changed meanings"; it is that it has been totally obsolete - hasn't been used - in "standard english" (hereafter "se") for going on half a millenium. find it ironic that this impassioned, if misguided and ill-informed, defense is coming from mr."benson said he felt acutely the moral dilemma of having promised confidentiality, but then having seen deliberate efforts to mislead the public about packer's role in the toscano affair. same english words were also used in communications between persons in an intimate relationship., for example, what oaks has said behind closed doors about farms (in a conversation he assumed would never be reported). nod to the old, "everything will fall apart in society if we abandon religion", fear tactic.”likewise,” quinn writes, “in an 1881 sermon on salt lake's temple square, southern states mission president john morgan spoke approvingly of hanging negro males ‘to a lamp-post’ for ‘impudence. and this rule still applies to the freedom of speech in the church as evidenced by simon's ordeal. the personal effects are devestating and very painful to many exmormons. as previously noted, counselor mckay in 1949 instructed an arizona stake president against that state's proposed legislation to 'guarantee rights of negroes."i have done so because i see so many people in the church hurting under the crushing heel of ecclesiastical abuse. know that some look back on their divorces with regret at their own partial or predominant fault in the breakup. oaks on tuesday likened the post-proposition 8 backlash against mormons to the persecution blacks endured during the civil-rights struggle. he said they were written by mclellin in his earlier missionary years of church service. oaks, in open defiance of his ultimate leader's condemnation of this heinous practice, solemnly told a byu devotional audience on january 29, 2002, in a sermon entitled "timing," that he not only endorsed polygamy but that he was, in fact, himself a temple-practicing, eternal lifer two-wifer:"when i was 66, my wife june died of cancer. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ talk about the unconscionable rewriting by dallin h."in truth, elder oaks acknowledged to me that they had met, saying president heinz 'called and asked for a meeting' with elder packer. that's always the ultimate answer in authoritarian organizations, whether we all realize it or not. everyone assumed he was a spectator, but when he picked up his number and joined the other competitors, everyone was shocked. he is a forthright, plain-spoken man, but elder packer is far too sophisticated and sensitive a man to call a stake president and tell him what he has to do in a church discipline case. us count the ways it historically did so, as outlined by quinn:--the utah’s mormon church sanction of state laws against interracial marriage, combined with mormon church encouragement of death threats against blacks--. my father was out of work, my mil was sewing her heart out to try and keep the lights on., in a strongly worded defense of the church's efforts opposing same-sex. employers who did hire blacks also discriminated against them in job assignment, promotion, and salary. lucky for us the big corporation had another position in another department for dh. with oaks' full-court press aimed at damage control, i determined it was time to push back. gandhi thursday, may 4, 2006, at 08:56 am original author(s): grey matter topic: dallin h. was becoming clear that if church members were going to get the truth on this messy affair, they couldn't depend on the church for help. smith, an assistant to the quorum of the twelve apostles] about the use of [lds] meeting houses for meetings to prevent negroes from becoming neighbors. that knowledge does not come from books or scientific proof. compare this to elder eyring's talk, "remember: from a few years ago. concept that society has a strong interest in preserving marriages for the common good as well as the good of the couple and their children has been replaced for many by the idea that marriage is only a private relationship between consenting adults, terminable at the will of either. yet, to the church, such “technical distinctions” between belief and knowledge don’t seem to matter - why? immediately i was told that we needed to sell our house! president hinckley also said, in speaking to priesthood leaders in a worldwide leadership training meeting:I have been quoted as saying, “do the best you can. it may cover unpleasantness for a time but, sooner or later, must melt, exposing that which was hidden.’ at best, this revealed the racial paternalism that governed lds headquarters. actually, the news media were claiming that the context of the letter showed that the "salamander" mentioned there referred to one of the "elemental spirits" of magic. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ in any case, it is interesting to note that on august 16, 1985, the mormon apostle dallin oaks tried to ease the fears of mormon educators with regard to the salamander letter by claiming that the words "white salamander" could be reconciled with joseph smith's statement about the appearance of the angel moroni:"another source of differences in the accounts of different witnesses is the different meanings that different persons attach to words. monday, oct 12, 2009, at 09:08 am original author(s): moniker topic: dallin h. even though i knew they would be disappointed, i did not think my family would shun me the way they did when i told them my thoughts about the church. hinckley declared to the world on the "larry king live" show that polygamy was a big, fat gospel and illegal no-no:"i condemn it, yes, as a practice, because i think it is not doctrinal."first, by framing his answer in the hypothetical, elder oaks falsely implied that he did not know whether elder packer had talked with paul toscano's stake president, kerry heinz. when she gave her first recital at the university of utah's kingsbury hall, this african-american was denied entry to any of salt lake city's hotels and had to stay with one of the concert's promoters. i also understand your reasons for being upset that i went public after having expressed appreciation for your calling the press in an effort to clarify your earlier statements. those not familiar with hoffman and the forged documents this link may help. you see the principle is that the structure is perfectly designed to get the results it gets. lee (1)   · hate mail i receive (23)   · hauns mill (2)   · hbo big love (12)   · heber c. is just pure bs, nothing much has to be said other than, are you freaking kidding me? but then the church has never really believed in the idea of freedom of expression among its members. example, he writes:Andgt;andgt; the special language of prayer follows different forms in different languages, but the principle is always the same. confession of mark hofmann makes it clear that oaks was way off base and that the news media were right all along. also claims that "unlike other organizations that can change their policies and even their doctrines, our policies are determined by the truths god has identified as unchangeable. i won't relay the whole conversation, but at one point he said there are no ga's at the cob in july. i wasn't going to even be a burden on the ward when we had babies - i didn't let them know when i had my 4th baby, so no meals were brought in, no help with the kids was ever accepted (though as a young mom i sure could have used it), unless i paid a teen to help me."elder oaks now admits that one of his answers to the reporter was untrue but blames it on 'inadvertence' or 'forgetfulness.] dunn has a natural communications link, though an outdated one; elder packer does not. now you may not be contemplating a marathon or an ultra-marathon, but you may be in the middle of a challenge that looks like one. while instructing the corinthian saints not to partake of meat offered in sacrifice to idols, the apostle paul explained,?“utah's racial discrimination did not occur by happenstance nor did it continue into modern times by accident. ignore people's "god-given free agency" to try to force them. cowley were expelled from the quorum of the twelve over the issue, with taylor being excommunicated.
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Utah's Transgender Mormons who have 'found peace' in their faith

the editor replied that if the "review" published my piece, it would be perceived as being a critic of the church and "lose advertisers. in utah, we attempted to get an audience with oaks. this, coupled with the growing population of black mormons in brazil ultimately led to a "revelation" by president spencer w. to other members is an essential process, and who would know that better than the leader/liars themselves. protestant king james repudiated more’s/oaks’ position by authorizing a new translation, one that would combine the best features of all then extant versions, to be written in the tongue of the common man - not some fake language which we’re supposed to pretend is “exalted”. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ one of mormonusm's top (and arguably most malevolent) hierarchal henchmen, dallin h. not consistent with that character which ought to be maintained by one who was called of god as i had been. said the quorum of the twelve debated when they should bring the mclellin papers forward. and another problem is there are a lot of things that the church has written about that the members haven’t read. believe in not only who and what you are now, but in what you have the power to become.“the truth”, in the end, does not matter - only “the church”. he said, “the most important thing you need to do in graduate school is to impress the right people. he told the reporter, 'i have no knowledge of whether he did. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ mormonism is a religion of extremes, nothing is gray, there is just black and white conviction. it can be mortifying to have to eat your shorts any time, but since we all make mistakes, and hopefully, all wish to learn, i think it's just part of life. jensen (3)   · marriott (2)   · martin harris (5)   · masons (16)   · melchizedek/aaronic priesthood (9)   · merrill j. if he had an affair with a girl when he was a teenager, i don’t need to read that when i’m trying to read a biography of the founding father of our nation. oaks had then prevaricated on the record about what we discussed. protections like filters on internet connections and locating access so others can see what is being viewed. 'i absolutely did not instruct him to hold a disciplinary council and did not then, nor have i ever, directed any verdict. he was hired by the mormon cult to be a premanent peddler of deceit. they find readers of their works who seem to delight in picking up these tidbits, and in chewing them over and relishing them. finally landing dh a job with the largest private corporation selling handguns at the time (walmart). oaks to byu-idaho women: your destiny is to be a wife and a mother in zion. got off of church financial assistance (and onto state aid for medical), and only used the bishop's storehouse (should have done the food stamps, but hind-sight is lots better than being in the moment). two years later--a year and a half ago--i married kristen mcmain, the eternal companion who now stands at my side. “'we affirm, then that the south is entirely right in thus keeping open at all times, at all hazards, and at all sacrifices an impassible social chasm between black and white. in effect, it is never enough to “believe” in mormonism, or to have “faith” in mormonism, worthy members are expected to gain a certainty of “knowledge” that mormonism is true. now, um, i guess my question is, do, do you have knowledge that he did that, in that case? you suggested that although being seperated from family members who are not believing or living all of your church's teachings is painful for the righteous mormons, it is sometimes necessary. when she returned in march 1948 to participate in a concert at the lds church's salt lake tabernacle, the first presidency relented. then spoke about his many years in illinois and how he had spoken at virutally every stake conference in the midwest since "being called to be an apostle 25 years ago" this month.), everything, into the informal form of address of every language of which i am aware., referred to the murdered man as ‘a [rhymes with “trigger”]. would dallin oaks insist that we all start listening to the motab on wax cylinders or vinyl lp's, or wear burlap robes to church instead of navy business suits with red silk ties?, if matthew and paul and luke et al didn’t use some archaic, pseudo-dignified form of speech in writing about the most sacred matters imaginable - jesus’ suffering, crucifixion, and resurrection - and don’t even quote jesus using anything other than common speech in addressing god, on what grounds can dallin oaks or anyone now claim that the scriptures (and our prayers) are so sacred as to merit warping in this way? oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ i read oak's article about dating vs hanging out.'s my experience:As a kid, i didn't know any difference - i know my folks would occasionally get food orders, normally we didn't go with them, the food just showed up. yes, we documented every contact, every hour dh was looking for work! the brethren felt i could not very well decline to see a stake president." ("cartoonist says oaks lied to protect fellow apostle," vern anderson, associated press, in salt lake tribune, 12 october 1993, sec., i fear that dallin oaks will be the ruin of this church. he spoke very softly and they didn't turn up the sound. instructions establish that the obligation to tell the truth does not require one to tell everything he or she knows in all circumstances. test it against moral law and you learn something very quickly., if you are jesus, and married to both mary magdalene and elizabeth (and likely others) [teaching unique to early mormon apostles, most notably jedediah grant, orson hyde, and brigham young].: --"uh, i was trying to help steve benson in a matter, a church matter, that does not concern the subject of our interview. it’s true, but i’ll be disciplined professionally if i share it because it’s part of the attorney-client privilege. weight of evidence for and against the book of mormon. their were threats by the federal government under president jimmy carter to pull the accreditation of byu because of open and active discrimmination against black students and not admitting qualified black students who had applied to the university. has occurred in mankind for as long as there has been a recorded history. now, what i am about to say may take some of you out of a comfort zone.”11 go forward with faith knowing if you do your part, the lord will always do his.“in 1963, utah ended its restrictions on interracial marriage, and counselor [hugh b. i'm sure if anyone falls into need now or is using the system, they must feel very guilty. smith to texas who, under orders to make sure they did not fall into "the wrong hands," acquired them for . and the impact these private institutions have on those they serve is magnified by the millions of volunteers motivated by the ideals they pursue. it seems so much easier to determine that no god exists. it would seem that even if other governors of the day were enforcing sedition laws joseph was not acting in accordance with the views of the men whom the church teaches were inspired by god to lay the foundations of this country and was not acting in a manner which upholded and sustained the freedom of expression in his community. you scroll down to the heading "inspiration," then look at the last paragraph of item 3, you will read:"the particular powers that are reserved to the states are part of the inspiration., for example, what oaks has said behind closed doors about farms (in a conversation he assumed would never be reported). likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two. you added that you fully expected paul toscano 'to sue' the church over this breach of procedural authority. further defended the church's refusal to provide its mclellin papers to law enforcement investigators on the grounds that the subpoena only requested mclellin documents that hofmann, not the church, was said to have possessed. the ancient order of marriage demands, however, that you don't tell your first wife about all the others, because it makes her really mad. i was so sad about this recently, that i was considering letting them back into my life, even after the very hurtful ways they treated me, simply for being true to my own belief system. "ca girl" reports about ga summer vacationing is true, as directly confirmed by mormon apostle dallin h.’ at that time, spafford was a vice-president of the national council of women.--the utah mormon church’s complicity in the entrenchment of racially discriminatory laws against utah blacks--. and dallin oaks, whether he knows it or not, seems to be on the side of the bad guys; he seems very much to agree with uber-catholic sir thomas more, who once complained bitterly about the holy word of god being translated into the language of ploughboys - rather than left in the more exalted, reverential language of."team sports and technology toys like video games and the internet are already winning away the time of our children and youth," oaks said. think what is really pissing oaks of is the trend of religion becoming more and more marginalized, not because of some sort of reverse discrimination but because religion in general and mormonism specifically is failing to effectively compete in the public marketplace. more enlightened leaders understand that these are loving parents who provide wonderful, safe, secure homes for many, many children in need of love and stability. the financial well-being of this private sector is dependent upon private contributions that qualify for the charitable deduction. told me, as well, that the mormon church--even if it wanted to--could not have cooperated with salt lake law enforcement on its subpoena because the order from the salt lake police for the mcclellin documents was made at a time when the general authorities were out of the office on scheduled vacation, thus leaving, oaks claimed, no one to make an authorized decision on whether or not to assist the police."my heart goes out to all who have suffered from this painful sequence of events., then the stake pres told us that we needed to sell. these abstract 'good mormon parents' full of spiritual purity he was talking about don't exist."'i think that steve benson is just going to have to carry the responsibility for whatever he relates about a confidential meeting,' oaks said. leasing, renting or selling of housing to gay or lesbian persons. all of utah's bowling alleys excluded african-americans, and lds hospitals segregated black patients, sometimes requiring them to pay for private rooms. this politically liberal counselor was unaware of the lds church president's private views about ‘insolent’ african-americans who wanted equal rights. i didn't realize until later all the implications other people would associate with it as far as being able to dwell in fire. maxwell noted that one reason oaks had been brought into the quorum of the twelve was to help rewrite the manual on church disciplinary procedure. during our brief chat, oaks was very cryptic in his comments, saying nothing of substance about the hofmann scandal. why is there no legislative campaign to prevent people from living together before marriage or producing children out of wedlock, both of which are equally serious in your doctrine?" (packer had come up with heinz through the ranks of the church education system). with what others are doing, how they’re performing, and how they’re being rewarded or treated starts early in life, with children often asking, “how come she gets to . lie is also furthered when one remains silent in a circumstance where he or she has a duty to speak and disclose. as we might expect if the church were not run, in the end, by anything approximating omniscience no matter how diluted by mortal minds, but by mortals whose access to omniscience is every bit as non-existent as our own, the church once again seems to find itself painted into a corner, any escape attempt from which - while maintaining church claims - must of necessity provoke the greatest violence on the rudimentary rules of logic, and the most basic respect for fact, truth, and reality. many find information through the internet – some would rather find things out about the church history, doctrine through teachings, rather than the internet, or other resources." oaks said it was "a mistake" on packer's part to have agreed to meet with heinz, the latter whom oaks described as "an old seminary man. this would have been changed by the proposed equal rights amendment (e. if that's that case, i guess we can just toss the book of mormon right out the window. reuben clark, this policy of segregating african-american blood from the blood donated by so-called ‘white people’ was intended ‘to protect the purity of the blood streams of the people of this church. divorce is not an all-purpose solution, and it often creates long-term heartache.: temple ceremonies changed to remove touching during washing and anointing. you have any final words as you are given your last wish for a cup of lime-green jello, sprinkled with carrots, before being summarily, excommunicatably executed by secret temple throat slit?: we should follow the spirit in determining how much we shun disobedient children. oaks and the polygamy elephant in the room wednesday, oct 9, 2013, at 09:20 am original author(s): aristotle smith topic: dallin h. if that's that case, i guess we can just toss the book of mormon right out the window. [“the dedication of a lifetime,” ces fireside for young adults, oakland, california, 1 may 2005; emphasis in original]. but i wish all of my facts in their proper context, with emphasis on those elements which explain the great growth and power of this organization. so many kids get into trouble because of all this ridiculous marriage and kids talk that the gas are dishing out. kimball which ended the policy of discrimmination against black males. a young, newly married, realizing we just were not making it, i went to the bishop for help - just food please, i've worked out a lot with our creditors. accompanying letter to the editor read, in part, as follows:"on october 25, the 'daily universe,' reportedly acting on a request from the office of the first presidency, published an article by elder dallin oaks, claiming recent news reports had falsely accused him of lying about elder boyd k."i wish to share with you my concerns relative to our private conversation in the office of elder maxwell on september 24th, in relation to your subsequent comments to 'arizona republic' reporter paul brinkley-rogers on october 1st. he explained that he had misspoken during an hour-long interview and when he was notified of that he called the reporter to retract a 'statement i could not defend. the media should make more complete disclosures, but latter-day saint readers should also be more sophisticated in their evaluation of what they read. it is tempting in a rapidly decaying world to consider ourselves righteous in comparison to what’s going on around us. it has been suggested that thee, thou, thy, and thine are simply holdovers from forms of address once used to signify respect for persons of higher rank. fact that is clear, however, is that the mormon church--in private admissions by its own leaders--deliberately blocked examination by law enforcement investigators of evidence in possession of the lds church that could have potentially aided in getting to the bottom of the hofmann case and could have helped bring to light important matters in a much more expeditious fashion. invoke his blessings upon you, in the name of jesus christ, amen. live in a world in which the whole concept of marriage is in peril and where divorce is commonplace."except, if your wife died, and you're an lds apostle, you can be sealed to another, much younger woman, so you'll get both of 'em in the eternities. my side, i was the oldest and only one with a job, brother was incarcerated)! any rate, he maintained, that interval was too narrow, so the mormon church decided to wait until turley's book, "victims," was published in 1992. the interest of equal time, i contacted the "universe" and requested that my response to oaks (the one also originally printed in "the salt lake tribune") also be published in the byu student newspaper. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ here's another juicy one from gc, as reported in today's trib:Apostle dallin h. upon discovering that he had left most of them intact, i concluded he had been provided ample opportunity to set the record straight and had not." ("oaks: 'i've been a victim of double-decker deceit," dallin oaks, salt lake tribune, 21 october 1993, sec. my family was my world and i love them more than i will ever be able to express in words. the financial well-being of this private sector is dependent upon private contributions that qualify for the charitable deduction. understand the context of the question, it is necessary to review events at the time, as reported in the press. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ one presently living in the mormon hereafter and the other presently living on earth. i wasn't sure how to reconcile this with importance placed on the first vision. oaks isn't going to come out and say "shun your family members who aren't part of the church.**oaks in his farms banquet speech:"scholarship and physical proofs are worldly values. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ oaks in his pbs interview:The book of job is one of the books of the old testament. i was distressed to find one statement to the reporter i could see was not accurate ('i have no knowledge of whether he did'). i felt really bad for a large, faithful, tithe- paying family in sitting close to me. oaks, "recent events involving church history and forged documents," ensign, oct.’ in 1949, while criticizing the legislative efforts in arizona to ‘guarantee rights of negroes,’ lds presidency counselor david o. it is known as the world’s most grueling ultra-marathon. we should address prayers to our heavenly father in words which speakers of that language associate with love and respect and reverence and closeness. he relates: “i betook myself to prayer and supplication to almighty god for forgiveness of all my sins and follies, and also for a manifestation to me, that i might know of my state and standing before him; for i had full confidence in obtaining a divine manifestation, as i previously had one. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ i really wish someone would testify a counter argument to congress. next turned to the "salt lake tribune," to further defend his honor. we have a vivid illustration of this in the recent media excitement about the word salamander in a letter martin harris is supposed to have sent to w.' making specific reference to the desegregation controversy in little rock, arkansas, counselor clark in 1957 instructed belle smith spafford ‘that she should do what she could to keep the national council [of women] from going on record in favor of what in the last analysis would be regarded as negro equality. turned to an off-campus, supposedly independent student publication, "student review," and spoke with its student editor, requesting that he publish a letter to the editor from me about the controversy.(and by the way, my wife is from lancashire; and if you went there right now and talked to people over fifty [as i have a few times] who still speak in dialectic, you would hear them quite frequently use the informal "thou" and "thee" to their grandchildren, farm animals like goats and pigs, and grocery boys. dallin oaks in flagrant violation of official lds doctrine tuesday, jul 17, 2007, at 09:01 am original author(s): steve benson topic: dallin h. so, if, as oaks claims, we need some formal language with which to address god, why then does jesus, the great exemplar, address god using the very intimate term “abba”?" [in this sense, the meaning of the word "inclusive" would be better expressed as "non-inclusive. contrast to the obligation to tell the truth and nothing but the truth, the obligation to “tell the whole truth” is subject to an important qualification. consciences of mormon church leaders (if such consciences even exist) must be heavily burdened with guilt, knowing how much they are deceiving the public, the press and the pews through their misleading and misdirecting claims.” he said,“let me suggest that in rexburg, idaho, we are in the process of creating not a missionary training center (mtc), but a disciple preparation center—a dpc. under the law of the lord, a marriage, like a human life, is a precious, living thing. it was a testimony to me of what a corrupt organization can do to otherwise loving and good people. hinckley described another kind of lack of context in his talk at october conference two years ago. i was at another professional meeting with a graduate student some years ago, we ran into the chair of the session in which the student had presented earlier. men have the initiative, and you men should get on with it. i can tell, it's going to be a lot of fun when i write up my review of this lesson next week. tricky sob is trying to tell me that the obedience to the leadership is just as valid a way to god as my own personal testimony., he insisted he had not directed toscano's stake president, kerry heinz, to convene a disciplinary council against him. claimed that at the time the church brought them out, it realized (apparently, he suggested, for the first time) that they spoke positively and glowingly of the church. 1 that he had 'no knowledge' of whether packer had met with kerry heinz, the local ecclesiastical leader for salt lake lawyer paul toscano, before heinz excommunicated toscano on sept. none of the oakster's listeners bothered to realize that someone who witholds truth because it might not be "faith-promoting" are also engaging in deception. similarly, the apostle paul assured us that “all things work together for good to them that love god” (romans 8:28). he would not defend a guilty man or woman - he would not lie on anyone's behalf. since the letter purports only to be martin harris's interpretation of what he had heard about joseph's experience, the use of the words white salamander and old spirit seem understandable. each of our family members has strong opinions about that, but for me, the preparation is the best part. what do i know about a higher power, and what is just mental static, courtesy of tscc? oaks carefully reads a news report that says he admitted to 'falsely telling' a journalist he had no knowledge of an event involving the excommunication of a church member. i was treading lightly and using caution though, as i did not want to hurt my son indirectly, through my family's almost sociopathic need to "follow their leaders". in 1947, when discussing the site of the future los angeles temple, counselor clark asked the lds church's attorney in that area ‘to purchase as much of that property as we can in order to control the colored situation. the evidence of how corrupt and unloving the mormon church is has been impossible to ignore lately.**oaks in his farms banquet speech:"brothers and sisters, how grateful we are--all of us who rely on scholarship, faith, and revelation--for what you are doing. thank you for your talk and especially for the timing of it. virginia: "under our constitution, the freedom to marry, or not to marry, a person of another race resides with the individual and cannot be infringed by the state. packer who put it in similar words: “the gaining of a testimony is in the bearing of it. i have been all over the world and talked to thousands of young women and they have expressed their dismay and discouragement about the whole thing. 'i had to decide to be a party to the cover-up or be faithful to my own convictions,' benson said. but if he, and if he gave a directed verdict or anything like that, that is contrary to policy, it is irregular and it's contrary to what i know of elder packer and the way he operates.'s time we start supporting each other in america and stop attacking and dividing. in that kind of atmosphere, they fail to detect a few deceivers, but that is the price they pay to increase their effectiveness in counseling, comforting, and blessing the hundreds of honest and sincere people they see. surely, the word ‘burning’ in this scripture signifies a feeling of comfort and serenity” (ensign,mar. (just replace “latin” with “kjv english”, which for many people, four hundred years later, seems about as incomprehensible as a robert burns poem written in scottish dialect, and you have oaks' position). is 'a mythical being thought to be able to live in fire."each of us has two distinct channels to god, the first is governance which is obedience to the leadership, and the second is personal testimony which gives us our knowledge in his existence. said that the mclellin papers held by the mormon church had been originally purchased by a representative sent by then-president joseph f. this time oaks was somewhat more willing to talk about the hofmann affair--specifically, why the mormon church had not, even in the face of a law enforcement subpoena, produced the mclellin papers, which it had in its possession."on the other hand, there are constraints on trying to reveal everything.' accepting the book of mormon, oaks said, was ultimately a matter of faith. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ on saturday april 5th, 2008 conference, oaks tries too hard to be an imposing presence and comes off as a bit statuesque with his trademark outstretched arms. (three other statements challenged by steve benson required no correction., he added, indicates that children are at a "significant disadvantage" when raised by single or unmarried parents. i speak of private educational institutions, hospitals, social welfare agencies, and innumerable other organizations ministering to the needs of children, youth, the aged, the poor, and citizens generally. miles long and takes world class athletes five full days to complete. i'm sure there's more than 5% of me that my wife finds disagreement with, but she puts up with it anyway. integrity is not a hindrance to your academic and professional success. oaks said that the church made a conscious decision not to bring forward the mclellin papers during the preliminaries. many of the more notable spiritual gifts are listed in 1 corinthians 12, moroni 10, and doctrine and covenants 46. can have the priesthood again (spencer kimball: "all worthy male members of the church may be ordained to the priesthood without regard for race or color"). do you have any evidence that elder packer [was] involved in any way in the decision-making process in the disciplining of [him]?”due to their international fame, anderson and bunche were exceptions to the mormon rules of race. both shunning and stigmatizing reinforce and call forth each other. offered as an example the following story of a man that once wrote him a letter:“he explained that he had been a machine gunner during the korean war.“i have met persons who told me they have never had a witness from the holy ghost because they have never felt their bosom ‘burn within’ them.?"by the same token, some things that are true are not edifying or appropriate to communicate. the powers that be are pulling out the big guns now. it is part of my faith and experience that the creator expects us to use the powers of reasoning he has placed within us, and that he also expects us to exercise our divine gift of faith and to cultivate our capacity to be taught by divine revelation. every week, we would come home from work and find big baskets and boxes of fresh produce and farmer's goods. oaks will be the ruin of this church wednesday, feb 9, 2011, at 09:11 am original author(s): lostandfound topic: dallin h. he said the church decided it would wait until those proceedings were over, then produce them before trial.: --"in a privileged conversation and, as a journalist, you'd understand the privilege. you said that president heinz was 'an old seminary man' and friend of elder packer during their days together in the church seminary system and that president heinz 'called and asked for a meeting' with elder packer. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ last week, senator orrin hatch broke ranks with a couple of tribes to which he belongs and said in an interview that he believes laws governing marriage should be left in the hands of the states. it quoted packer as admitting he had met with heinz about toscano's case, but he denied having pressured the stake president to excommunicate toscano. as previously noted, counselor mckay in 1949 instructed an arizona stake president against that state's proposed legislation to 'guarantee rights of negroes. callister (3)   · tal bachman - section 1 (25)   · tal bachman - section 2 (25)   · tal bachman - section 3 (25)   · tal bachman - section 4 (25)   · tal bachman - section 5 (25)   · tal bachman - section 6 (25)   · tal bachman - section 7 (9)   · talks - section 1 (1)   · temple weddings (6)   · temples - names (1)   · terryl givens (1)   · the pearl of great price (1)   · the single wards (5)   · the world table (3)   · thomas phillips (18)   · thomas s. you said that elder packer had no authority or responsibility to participate in such contact and you told me that you strongly urged elder packer not to engage in such contact in the future. that’s an old problem in mormonism a feeling of members that they shouldn’t have been surprised by the fact that this or that happened, they should’ve been alerted to it."'we have those critics who appear to wish to cull out of a vast panorama of information those items which demean and belittle some of the men and women of the past who worked so hard in laying the foundation of this great cause. grant wrote that ‘the citizens’ hanged ‘the [again, rhymes with “trigger”]. "because" - because spencer kimball said so, because joseph said so, because we always have. his love for you is infinite—quantitatively and qualitatively—and intimate—intensely personal and specific. oaks: "don't write me a letter" monday, may 29, 2006, at 08:58 am original author(s): shane ak topic: dallin h."in reality, elder oaks did know the discussion took place--as evidenced by the fact that he later retracted this statement., if you are john taylor, lorenzo snow, wilford woodruff, george cannon, heber kimball, and on and on and on, in which case you can obtain a new wife every time your last wife gets worn out. even this little point is designed perfectly to remove the eyes of the potatoes and look at these results. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ the ancient order of marriage is the divinely sanctioned union, recognized by the state, between one man and one woman. the heels of my meetings with oaks and maxwell, i then accompanied "arizona republic" reporter paul brinkley-rogers to salt lake city in early october 1993 to assist him in making contacts with lds leaders, spokesmen, educators and critics for a story on the recent purge of notable church dissidents. the thing, in the end, just isn't defensible without ending up sounding like you're creating your own version of the nicene creed. that god's laws cannot be influenced by nor abrogated by man's laws. both of these kinds of special words are appropriately used in offering prayers in other languages because they communicate the desired feelings of love, respect, reverence, or closeness.“[in 1963], apostle joseph fielding smith told ‘look’ magazine's editor: ‘”darkies” are wonderful people, and they have their place in our church. the jews faced extermination in persia, the new persian queen, esther, who was of jewish descent, was reminded by her cousin mordecai: “who knoweth whether thou art come to the kingdom for such a time as this? a married woman fled and obtained a divorce in another country, but her husband, who remained behind, is still married in the eyes of the philippine law. i was simply following joseph smith's example, by searching the truth of religion. told me that when it came to the mormon church's attention that it did, in fact, have mclellin papers in its possession, the discovery process was already underway, preliminary trial motions were ongoing and hofmann was destined to plea-bargain in july. sneakily and self-servingly seeking to make mormons blood-brothers with african-americans in both plight and purpose, oaks conveniently left out of his self-pitying speech any mention of the history of the salt lake city-based mormon church’s racially-poisoned pronouncements and actions over the last several decades that specifically targeted utah's african-american community (and, indeed, african-americans across the country) for social isolation, criminal punishment and sweeping denial of equal protection under the law. find it ironic that this impassioned, if misguided and ill-informed, defense is coming from mr. oaks isn't going to come out and say "shun your family members who aren't part of the church. oaks really wants to read the bible in something like a faithful translation, he could try the rsv (forget what j. family relationships wouldn't be impaired if family members who believe in the church's doctrine would mind their own business (something oaks doesn't want them to do). he had worked many hours on wording, rewording, and crafting his talk in order to present as clearly as possible his data and conclusions. what is the best part—running the marathon and crossing the finish line or preparing to run a marathon? mclellin was, as described by steven naifeh and gregory white smith in their book, 'the mormon murders,' 'an early apostle and close associate of joseph smith's who left the church in 1836 to become one of its bitterest enemies. this experience with my family, i was so torn about what to do concerning the church. he refused to grant a newspaper interview but did agree to meet with me in his office. was an english-educated lawyer - and a slightly unusual lawyer. monday, jul 23, 2007, at 07:07 am original author(s): westberkeleyflats topic: dallin h., if you are kind david or king solomon, in which case you might have as many as 300 wives and 300 additional concubines, and copulating with and siring children by slaves was perfectly acceptible, both in the eyes of your citizens, and in the eyes of god, who sanctioned the practice. was that it would effect a significant reallocation of law-making power from the states to the federal government. the vast majority know that many in society, like the lds leadership, are hyper critical of their parenting and therefore strive to be the most competent parents possible. however, until that year, every living prophet of the lds church since brigham young either actively opposed the civil rights of african-americans or passively endorsed the existing civil discriminations against them in utah. the brethren felt i could not very well decline to see a stake president. but then the church has never really believed in the idea of freedom of expression among its members. subject to a lot of questions we’d like to have answered, we know who wrote the book of luke, and who wrote john, and paul wrote his letters, and so on – a lot about their provenance. (dallin oaks married june dixon in 1952, who passed away in 1998. criticizes "soccer" and team sports tuesday, oct 9, 2007, at 09:02 am original author(s): rollo tomasi topic: dallin h."one wonders why so many writers neglected to reveal to their readers that there is another meaning of 'salamander,' which may even have been the primary meaning in this context in the 1820s. a weakening can be attributed "to the ascendancy of moral relativism."elder oaks also told me he later spoke directly with elder packer, advising him that elder packer's meeting with president heinz violated disciplinary procedure and that elder packer had no authority or responsibility in this area. the lds church is what lawyers call a "deep pocket" and they will likely need protection from being sued. it was still there, but i'd missed it reading over the intro in the bookstore. you were provided with an opportunity to set the record straight completely."profit" / "apostate" oaks to mormons in eight states: you were warned; you're on your own.**oaks behind closed doors:In private, oaks offered the following counsel:"you ought to go through the book of mormon and color in all the differences and emphasize the unique and special teachings of the book of mormon that don't have any similarities to other sources."in truth, elder oaks acknowledged to me that they had met, saying president heinz 'called and asked for a meeting' with elder packer. extended their support of racial segregation to states beyond utah. and a person who learns some embarrassing fact and threatens to reveal it unless he is paid off commits a crime we call blackmail, even if the threatened disclosure is true.: "the, the, the only thing i can see that i want to correct. i served way beyond what was asked of me within your church. weirdest talk in modern gc history: dallin oaks' "language of prayer". when he [heinz] left, i did not know what he would do. faq contact me 332 topics the ex-mormon forums mormon resignation search themormon curtain mormoncurtain how to navigate:click the subject below to go directly to the article.
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their father had lost his job and the church had been helping them with their mortgage payments so they wouldn't be foreclosed. they're full of cherry-picked pearls of wisdom and high-sounding ideals but never address squarely real human life, and they always assume that faithful members or parents are somehow paragons of virtue who would have a right to pontificate the way they do from the tabernacle pulpit. german, french, italian, spanish, portugese, dutch, every other language with two forms of address, i believe - the church itself always uses the informal! because divorce separates the interests of children from the interests of their parents, children are its first victims."when we first married, i was working as a consultant for a publishing house based in boston. oaks said he was 'distressed and astonished' that packer agreed to the meeting. he advised the church members that "real love for the sinner may compel confrontation.'s suspected entanglement in the excommunication of toscano became a subject of extensive media coverage in the fall of 1993.' he insists that other challenged statements he made 'required no correction. is usa-educted lawyer, a justice of the utah supreme court - and unfortunately, a slightly bent lawyer, actually the worst type. utah law also prohibited marriage between a white person and a black (including persons only one-eighth negro)."you responded: 'as for elder packer, elder packer does not have a specific responsibility for any area in the church . i therefore felt it my moral obligation to break the silence that otherwise would have served only to perpetuate falsehood and false faith. morning i would like to review with you certain principles taught in the scriptures and by living prophets that relate to comparing and competing, first in our academic and professional lives, then more generally in our personal lives. if we ask “what wilt thou have me to do? in the process of cementing such laws into place, sentiments were publicly expressed by mormon church leaders condoning the actual killing of african-americans found in violation of the state's anti-black marriage laws. told me, as well, that the mormon church--even if it wanted to--could not have cooperated with salt lake law enforcement on its subpoena because the order from the salt lake police for the mcclellin documents was made at a time when the general authorities were out of the office on scheduled vacation, thus leaving, oaks claimed, no one to make an authorized decision on whether or not to assist the police. i am grateful for my family in that they have taught me exactly how not to be in raising my own family. he knew his life was not consistent but most importantly, he knew what to do about it. it was revolutionary because it was a translation of the scriptures into the language of the common man; and as such, was a total karate kick in the face of the church. specifically, was steve on a reconnaissance for you when he asked about two weeks ago for a church interview and came into an interview, in an ecclesiastical setting, which is the occasion of this comparison? he said they were written by mclellin in his earlier missionary years of church service. i testify that the mind and the will of the lord are made known to us in the words of living prophets and apostles, including the counsel we have considered this morning. months later, we finally got a job paying more than he had made before he had been laid off. it quoted packer as admitting he had met with heinz about toscano's case, but he denied having pressured the stake president to excommunicate toscano. he put the tape into the rental car cassette deck and pushed the "play" button. packer's involvement in the excommunication of mormon dissenter paul toscano. collection, contrary to hofmann's claims, was eventually determined not to exist. instead, christ said to analyze their “fruits”, that is; to analyze the outcome of their work., hundreds of thousands, if not millions of parents in america are gay with children from a previous marriage, adoption or various methods. it never has been - and is still not, where it is used - the "reverent", "dignified", or "formal" form, not in regional dialects, nor in se). oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ i didn't know i would be spending my easter with a large congregation watching a satellite broadcast of three people on subjects other than easter. he has been living with that traumatic event probably for decades and oaks probably said some strong words that made this guy question his standing before god. brown) as a counselor, who was mystified that mckay allowed benson to endorse the speeches and activities of nationally known segregationists., however, vehemently denied that he had been behind the banishment of toscano. however, what you said in public varies significantly from the facts as you laid them out to me."oaks said he had assumed by benson's second letter that he was satisfied. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ on saturday april 5th, 2008 conference, oaks tries too hard to be an imposing presence and comes off as a bit statuesque with his trademark outstretched arms. so, the obsolete "thou" can be appropriated to this end, despite the fact it was always - and is still, where used - the informal form. brown) as a counselor, who was mystified that mckay allowed benson to endorse the speeches and activities of nationally known segregationists., he added, indicates that children are at a "significant disadvantage" when raised by single or unmarried parents. if the decisions of federal courts can override the actions of state lawmakers on this subject, we have suffered a significant constitutional reallocation of lawmaking power from the lawmaking branch to the judicial branch and from the states to the federal government. german, french, italian, spanish, portugese, dutch, every other language with two forms of address, i believe - the church itself always uses the informal! said that the whole question of this portion of the investigation centered on whether hofmann even had the mclellin papers."in short, readers need to be sensitive to the reality that historical and biographical facts can only contribute to understanding when they are communicated in context. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ ca girl writes:"did you know that gas take the month of july off work?: --"to extort information from me in behalf of you? the case against the historicity of the book of mormon has to prove a negative. how can "usage" and its "history" not be the point, when his whole talk is about 500 year old words that he wants us to keep using, on grounds that they are "dignified", even though, as he also admits, they aren't? so, if elder packer is having any conversation with kerry heinz, it is outside the normal channel. maxwell concurred, adding that the mclellin papers had been "stuffed away somewhere" and the church did not realize it had them.'d think the church would get the message that if youth activities were not so damned boring, the kids might show up., in effect, eventually you gain a perfect knowledge from god by routinely pretending in public that you already have that perfect knowledge!”for more than a century, utah restricted african-americans from patronizing white restaurants and hotels, prohibited them from public swimming pools, and required them to sit in the balconies of theaters. don’t let the low standards and expectations of the world and others cause you to aim beneath your nobility and ability—dream big!'s funny, but the next time a vacancy for a lawyer crops up on the cult's board of 15 prophets, you can be sure they will never pick a mohandas gandhi, or a bob mccue, or a t-bone. truth is ultimately our best defense and the best way of doing business. i speak of private educational institutions, hospitals, social welfare agencies, and innumerable other organizations ministering to the needs of children, youth, the aged, the poor, and citizens generally."i withdrew one sentence i had spoken in a long interview, and i did so three days before the article was published because i realized when i saw the written transcript, that this single sentence was not 'truthful'(meaning 'accurate' or 'correct'). for example, some persons write general authorities asking when we will be returning to missouri or how we should plan to build up the new jerusalem. confidentiality agreements are valid only when the parties involved remind truthful, whether publicly or privately."oaks' answer contained several clear-cut falsehoods which point to a larger pattern of deception. i’d like to ask dallin oaks who “the great exemplar” is, if not jesus? grant: "the word of wisdom became a law unto the people, and they were required to obey it"). the whole point of the king james version of the bible was to put it into common tongue - not keep it “exalted” or “obscure” or “archaic (although a few of tyndale’s by then famous phrases, 80 years old by that time and already sounding a bit dated, were kept)." those "patient efforts" could involve shunning, subtle forms of stigmatizing, all manner of bs that most people on this board have experienced first-hand. also argued that the mormon church only had between may and august of that year as the available interval in which to get the mclellin papers out.?"in view of all this, and as a matter of intellectual evaluation, why all the excitement in the media, and why the apparent hand-wringing among those who profess friendship with or membership in the church? i'm sure if anyone falls into need now or is using the system, they must feel very guilty. benson said he also warned that if the apostle did not 'set the record straight' he would no longer feel obligated to keep their discussion confidential. we had served together in the seminary program 35 years ago. among other lessons, this parable reinforces the principle that where “much is given much is required” (d&c 82:3) and suggests that where less is given, less may be required. my meeting with oaks and maxwell, i specifically asked if packer had, in fact, been involved behind the scenes in the excommunication process against toscano."i want to personally thank you for calling the 'arizona republic' reporter, mr.' and packer' plottings against toscano were ultimately unmasked within the larger context of the mormon church's 1993 crackdown on dissidents (the so-called "september six").: "i was trying to do, to deal with that in having a confidential interview with him. then spoke about his many years in illinois and how he had spoken at virutally every stake conference in the midwest since "being called to be an apostle 25 years ago" this month. but the important thing was that i could recognize that this sentence was not correct. billion in cash and in-kind donations to help with relief efforts., contrast oaks' privately-expressed criticisms of farms with what he subsequently uttered about farms in a patently disingenuous display of situational schmoozing--expressed, no less, at a banquet hosted by farms, where oaks, as the featured speaker, was being both worshipped and fed. sure there was one family member who was willing to take us on. oaks carefully reads a news report that says he admitted to 'falsely telling' a journalist he had no knowledge of an event involving the excommunication of a church member. the truth is constrained by other obligations, the outcome is not falsehood but silence for a reason. they told me every morning they get up, go to the river to bath, and then carry a bucket of water home to the village where they make this mixture called gari which everyone eats either on a leaf or in a coconut. in this talk, oaks notes that the meanings of words change over time, as though to insinuate that "thou" had. he refused to grant a newspaper interview but did agree to meet with me in his office. the ancient order of marriage demands, however, that you don't tell your first wife about all the others, because it makes her really mad. weakening of religion (not his red herring religious freedom) is attributed not to moral relativisim but to the morality of people putting people ahead of religious institutions."except, if you are john taylor, lorenzo snow, wilford woodruff, george cannon, heber kimball, and on and on and on, in which case you can obtain a new wife every time your last wife gets worn out.' his letter did not even hint that he thought further clarifications were necessary. in fact, there was nothing on it at all, except for a single newspaper article, the subject of which i could not read, since from where oaks sat, it was upside down. further observes:“there was no mystery about why utah law continued to prohibit interracial marriage. men and women are waiting to get their education and started in their careers before saddling themselves with spouses and children. short, dallin oaks might best be regarded as a jurist's and a gentleman's joke. the fall of 1985, a few days after the hofmann bombings, i accompanied chuck kelly (a reporter from the "arizona republic"), to salt lake city to assist him in making contacts for covering the story. informed speculation on who may have convinced oaks to stay on board rather than quit the quorum suggests that then-first presidency counselor gordon b. he said he wrote elder oaks before the story ran, thanking him for retracting a statement and explaining his intention was to give elder oaks a chance to set the record straight. it was these papers that were the subject of my conversation with oaks and maxwell., in an on-the-record interview with a newspaper reporter, oaks blatantly misrepresented the truth about packer's involvement in the excommunication of toscano who, among other things, had caught the disapproving eye of church apostles by suggesting that church members need not perpetuate a cult of personality by standing up when general authorities walked into the room. you have a better chance of getting help from the state or the banking industry!, of course the leaders that were insisted that we would loose the house and be on the street in no time. personal experience, i testify to the sweetness of the marriage and family life that the family proclamation describes as founded upon a husband and wife’s “solemn responsibility to love and care for each other and for their children” and “upon the teachings of the lord jesus christ. but is it "self-destructive" for someone to decide to follow another religious or existential path than one laid out by the church? when he left, i did not know what he would do. privately owned up to me, however, that packer had inappropriately injected himself into local church action against toscano--and, in the process, violated church disciplinary procedures and opening the church up to a possible lawsuit from toscano.**oaks behind closed doors:When asked how to deal with the above noted anomalies found in the book of mormon, oaks replied that the jury was still out. all of utah's bowling alleys excluded african-americans, and lds hospitals segregated black patients, sometimes requiring them to pay for private rooms. (dallin oaks married june dixon in 1952, who passed away in 1998. was not about to sit by and let him get away with it. oaks   -link to mc article- ↑ today i read for the first time this speech given in 1993 by dallin oaks to byu laws students and faculty.' he said he was 'distressed and astonished' that elder packer met with president heinz, noting 'it was a mistake for packer to meet with heinz and a mistake for heinz to ask for the meeting. i have no desire to prolong this controversy, but feel it necessary to set the record straight on some important matters omitted or obscured in this attack upon my integrity. so why can't you stop judging and just let your neighbors be?"second, oaks said he had no knowledge that packer met with heinz. and will be liable to be dealt with according to the rules and regulations thereof and excommunicated therefrom"). he repeatedly takes his choicest servants out of their comfort zones and challenges them by their circumstances, their trials, and their opportunities to become more and to do more. does it need to be a feeling of caloric heat, like the burning produced by combustion? he had killed a hundred, he said, and now he must be going to hell because i had spoken of the lord’s commandment ‘thou shalt not kill. that's destructive behavior; i'm going to try to get a spouse help who abuses alcohol.'s funny, but the next time a vacancy for a lawyer crops up on the cult's board of 15 prophets, you can be sure they will never pick a mohandas gandhi, or a bob mccue, or a t-bone.”20 i so testify, in the name of jesus christ, amen. i learn that oaks was reportedly willing to make his career as an apostle for the lds inc. the editor replied that if the "review" published my piece, it would be perceived as being a critic of the church and "lose advertisers. holland said that our culture has an “obsession with comparing [and] competing” (“the tongue of angels,” ensign, may 2007, 17).’ this occurred three years after his father [mormon church president brigham young] had publicly informed the mormons that if african-americans had relations with white women, ‘the penalty, under the law of god, is death on the spot. way to deal with academic and professional competition was recommended to me by my graduate advisor."the reason given by universe staff was that opinions contrary to that of elder oaks would not see print, because of expected opposition from salt lake. to oaks' claim to me in our september 24, 1993, private meeting that packer had independently strayed outside approved channels of authority, packer insisted that, in fact, he had been advised by "the brethren" to meet with toscano's stake president.--the utah mormon church’s support of denial of food, hotel and other basic services to utah blacks--., in the april 2008 general conference, dallin oaks made the following statement:“another way to seek a testimony seems astonishing when compared with the methods of obtaining other knowledge. may his heart go out, not only in love, but in reconciliation, to those who have suffered from this abuse of ecclesiastical power.'m very happy to be at even more peace than ever with my decision to leave the mormon church.--the utah mormon church’s support of racial discrimination outside the boundaries of utah--. yeah oaks, less and less you your members are going to be selling out their own family members and friends for you and your 14 buddies in the future, you better get used to it dude. here are some of the things he said that made me say to myself, "really? the ancient order of marriage is pretty liberal when it comes to marrying siblings, cousins and slaves.: "it's, uh, it's in this talk about the kerry heinz matter"--. you are so valiant and good that i know the lord will enlighten you just like he did the brother of jared when he moved him out of his comfort zone on the beach (see ether 2:14)." oaks then preceeded to lie about packer's involvement in toscano's ecclesiastical execution (on the record, no less) to a newspaper reporter during the public controversy surrounding the lds hierachy's ham-handed hanging of the "september six.” she then made reference, without specific details, to an extremely trying time in her life. was not immediately informed by the reporter of the details of the above conversation, being initially told only that oaks had called to clarify the record.“universally, they focused on the fault of the spouse and attributed little responsibility to their own behavior. during world war ii, african-americans wearing their nation's uniform had to sit in the balcony of utah theaters, while german prisoners-of-war sat on the main floor with white servicemen and civilians.: "well, i appreciate the opportunity to visit with you and thank you for calling. he feels what you feel, he shares your joys and sorrows, and he desires your happiness now and forever. he had already contacted us and was only willing to buy from us for 1/3rd of what we owed. the original doctrine of his church stated that "celestial marriage" was required to reach the highest level of happiness, and those married to only one wife would not achieve it.: "and, and you, what i'm going to tell you why, i, uh, oh, why i was aroused by this. i disagree and feel that you know nothing about love. a family is supposed to stick together, through good and hard times and no matter what the individual members' beliefs are or aren't. is very sad to not have any grandparents for my darling baby though. i knew very little about housework; i didn’t even know how to match socks. andersen - section 1 (3)   · new order mormon (8)   · obedience - pay, pray, obey (15)   · object lessons (15)   · oliver cowdrey (6)   · orrin hatch (10)   · parley p. i'm envious of the loving, unconditional love and respect they show each other."in our september 24th meeting, i asked you if kerry heinz, paul toscano's stake president, had had any contact with, or received any instruction from, elder boyd k. that is what the lord intends for his young adult sons and daughters.. for many years, the church has counseled people not to date before age 16. blacks were not allowed to married for time and all eternity, it ensured that they would be servants in the eternities. it has been observed that 'a lie is like a blanket of snow. there should be ample opportunities to experience the prospective spouse’s behavior in a variety of circumstances. smith to texas who, under orders to make sure they did not fall into "the wrong hands," acquired them for . this time they learned from past mistakes and scheduled this broadcast a month before easter so the lack of emphasis on jesus wasn't quite so startling as it was on easter of 2009. the authority to marry people is granted to his church by the state. he paused for a few seconds, encouraging members to write these things down."i testify of jesus christ, whom we serve, whose church this is.: "if you'd just strike out, 'i have no knowledge of whether he did'"--.: "uh, is, are you involved in any kind of an effort that steve is now making to extort information from me--and i use the word 'extort,' uh"--. 'even though i could defend myself by affirming or denying those things, i don't feel free' to do that without violating a pledge of confidentiality, he said. he will even send his angels to be with you. might reply that he was entitled to use this term, since god was his literal father. they just sat there and so i tried to encourage them by saying, “now you could tell me, i promise i won’t tell the prophet. we had served together in the seminary program 35 years ago. adult children should be free to choose their own religious belief system without expecting to be shunned or chastised by their family. lucky for us the big corporation had another position in another department for dh. their power derived from their ability to be the final interpreters of a scripture withheld from the very people they sought power over (does that sound familiar? every week, we would come home from work and find big baskets and boxes of fresh produce and farmer's goods."in the interest of fairness and accuracy, i requested that 'the universe' provide me an opportunity to reply. forward to my meeting with oaks and maxwell in september 1993."two years later--a year and a half ago--i married [in the lds temple] kristen mcmain, the eternal companion who now stands at my side..scriptural instructions establish that the obligation to tell the truth does not require one to tell everything he or she knows in all circumstances. the use of the words white salamander and old spirit seem understandable. contrast, modern prophets have warned that looking upon marriage “as a mere contract that may be entered into at pleasure … and severed at the first difficulty … is an evil meriting severe condemnation,” especially where children are made to suffer. the end, oaks, with a note of resignation in his voice, said of packer, "you can't stage manage a grizzly bear. church continues to insist on using “thees” and “thous” in prayer, because to replace them would raise the question of why the church is still then sticking with an archaic bible translation which has been greatly superceded in accuracy and intelligibility by a number of others. to official mormon polygamous doctrine, when oaks moves on to the mormon hereafter, he will, at that point, be with both of his wives in time and eternal space in a threesome of wedded bliss forever. not more open with its own historical documents, specifically as relating to the refusal of the church to acknowledge the existence of, or share with, law enforcement authorities the mclellin papers during the hofmann investigation.: oaks in private and oaks in public on the book of mormon and farms., he said, the mclellin papers the church had were of no relevance to trial evidence being requested by the police (although oaks admitted that no one in the quorum had read them at the time or knew what was in them)."according to my notes taken during the meeting, oaks admitted that heinz 'called and asked for a meeting' with packer.. the moment the bar of absolute seperation is thrown down in the south, that moment the bloom of her spirit is blighted forever,., in his oaks-sanctioned book, 'victims: the lds church and the mark hofmann case' (p., blame all that uncooperative foot-draggin' on the mormon church's vacation schedule for its hierarchy."third, oaks claimed that if packer met with heinz, it ran contrary to oaks' knowledge of how packer operated."i wish to share with you my concerns relative to our private conversation in the office of elder maxwell on september 24th, in relation to your subsequent comments to 'arizona republic' reporter paul brinkley-rogers on october 1st. the ancient order of marriage demands, however, that you don't tell your first wife about all the others, because it makes her really mad. god bless the founders and the supporters and the workers of the foundation for ancient research and mormon studies. if this question is read and remembered as asking “what wilt thou have me to do? love how he introduced himself too: "i am elder dallin h."the dominance of state law will also be changed if, after full review, federal courts decree that a state law on marriage is invalid under the united states constitution. 24, we met again with steve benson for about an hour and a half. the american revolution, a free press was identified by revolutionary leaders as one of the elements of liberty that they sought to preserve., he said, the mclellin papers the church had were of no relevance to trial evidence being requested by the police (although oaks admitted that no one in the quorum had read them at the time or knew what was in them). you don't prove a negative by prevailing on one debater's point or by establishing some subsidiary arguments. shying away from forthrightly informing readers on matters of public importance only guarantees that wrongs will be perpetrated and, in the long run, serves only to hurt the church. that's destructive behavior; i'm going to try to get a spouse help who abuses alcohol. so, that's all i know about that at this point. oaks, an apostle of the church, spoke about family, the value of life, and the importance of loving everyone - all worthy subjects. trouble is, it then does get out--into the larger world, that is, and exposes them as deceptive brokers doing the dishonest bidding of their mormon cult. my son's life will be richly blessed because of it. polygamous arrangement for oaks, of course, is due to the mormon church's on-going doctrinal practice of performing secret polygamous marriages in its contemporary temples. question i posed to oaks and maxwell concerned reports that packer had been behind the excommunication of toscano. than speak about christ, the speakers essentially spoke about getting more people to do their duties, come to church, participate in activities, and pay tithing. might be okay, except that the church itself translates all references to deity, in its scriptures, its manuals, its conference talks (even oaks'! however, we are beginning to see worldwide indications that this may not be so. caricatures are amusing, but they are often ugly and dishonest. packer was out of his league (as well as out of bounds) when packer intervened in the excommmunication of paul toscano; that it was oaks'--not packer's--responsibility to handle matters of church discipline, as he (oaks) had been chosen to rewrite the rules in the church handbook of instructions; that, thanks to packer, toscano would probably sue the mormon church for violation of toscano's ecclesiastical rights; and that packer was ultimately a "grizzly bear" who could not be "stage managed. would transfer from states to the federal government much of the power to deal with domestic relations, and further shift much law-making authority from locally elected legislators to nonelected federal judges. oaks started off by referring to a letter from someone who had requested their name be removed from the records of the church. two days after their temple marriage, a husband deserted his young wife and has not been heard from for over 10 years. anyone who teaches you to lie, must be a liar themselves. (after all, the only reason why someone might say far fewer silly things than average would be if they were a "special witness" of, with special access to, the faultless, omniscient mind of a deity, like the ascended jesus of nazareth. the practitioners of that approach typically focus on a limited number of issues, like geography or 'horses' or angelic delivery or nineteenth century language patterns. they “recognized the importance and power of the atonement for their spouse and for themselves,” and “they were patient and would try again and again." he urged parents and caregivers to respond to children who struggle, including with same-sex attraction, with "loving understanding, not bullying or ostracism. i could not, therefore, in good conscience, let them remain unchallenged, when both you and i knew better. i never wore it because it was the head of a cow! i remember how starkly clean the top of oaks' desk was. 1, a reporter for the 'arizona republic' interviewed me for about an hour on a wide variety of subjects pertaining to current controversies over church discipline. i met him once at the edinburgh mission home when i was 18. it would be analogous to having an individual come to me and say, 'just between us, i killed my wife,' then turn around and tell the press that the next-door neighbor did it. of course he did not go into detail about why joseph felt it was necessary to destroy the printing press or whether the information the press was distributing was in anyway false or misleading. i met with oaks and maxwell, i asked them (from an outline of questions i brought with me) "why the [mormon] church [was] not more open with its own historical documents, specifically as relating to the refusal of the church to acknowledge the existence of, or share with, law enforcement authorities the mclellin papers during the hofmann investigation., they cited the way it would have changed various legal rules having to do with the family, a result they characterized as "a moral rather than a legal issue."'i therefore consented but asked president heinz if he would feel all right about his file leader, president loren dunn, being present. what i do know is that persons worrying about such things are probably neglecting to seek a firmer understanding and a better practice of the basic principles of the gospel that have been given to them with words of plainness by the scriptures and by the servants of the lord. quote is part of a talk delivered by oaks, attempting to explain how the church got fooled by mark hofmann, who cost the church thousands of dollars and the lives of two of its members. as a former attorney and utah supreme court justice, oaks should well know that marriage is a legal institution, not a religious one.: "i'm looking at the transcript that was made from the recording when made here.: --"that are rather considerable, uh, uh, controversy with his church. is too obtuse to see the irony wednesday, oct 14, 2009, at 09:08 am original author(s): anonymous topic: dallin h. said that the mclellin papers held by the mormon church had been originally purchased by a representative sent by then-president joseph f. "we should assume the same disadvantages for children raised by couples of the same gender..Oaks said mclellin (who became disaffected from the church and eventually left it), had ransacked joseph smith's home while smith was incarcerated and taken several of smith's belongings. inexcusable effort to equate the political resistance mormons have encountered in their designs to deny equal rights to gays with the torturous and brutal racist treatment to which american blacks have been mercilessly subjected for generations was not only breathtakingly inappropriate but factually selective and historically indefensible."oaks called the 'republic's' reporter that night and retracted the 'i have no knowledge of whether he [packer] did' statement. he somehow twisted this into an lesson of how we must not lose or short spiritual memory and how we cannot rely on our long term memories, such as our mission experience, to keep us going strong. and incidentally, if there is a league table, joseph, in my view, is down at the bottom with the other low-life.: "let me put the robe on and go in another room, where i can be comfortable., there were no mormon church leaders available at the time to work with the police on the mclellin paper caper, because the church personnel authorized to do so were all on vacation. he is causing such bad pr for the church and for salt lake city. and a person who learns some embarrassing fact and threatens to reveal it unless he is paid off commits a crime we call blackmail, even if the threatened disclosure is true."you told me that you were 'distressed and astonished' that elder packer met with president heinz. left a message with brinkley-rogers, who returned the call that evening, reaching oaks at home through the church switchboard operator (cso).’ effort to cloak mormons in the same national experience of pain and suffering as faced by black americans in the south was a shocking manifestation of his boundless, egregious, and pitifully arrogant insensitivity--particularly since it comes from a man who represents a mormon church that is itself saddled with a long, ugly and authenticated legacy of bigoted doctrinal teachings and practices against african-americans. i once again am reminded of the pain the mormon church leaves in its wake. a new strategy has been introduced to increase donations: the deacons will now travel by car great distances with the priests to collect fast offerings (this is done in utah where member live close together-not as practical our here). fourth, your blanket denial of knowing anything beyond what you told the reporter is completely undermined, i feel, by what you told me. oaks said the church was concerned the papers mclellin had purloined would turn out to be very negative and reflect poorly on the church. the first five books of the old testament i give as an example like the new testament."he quoted oaks as saying of packer, 'you can't stage manage a grizzly bear,' and added that 'it was a mistake for packer to meet with heinz and a mistake for heinz to ask for the meeting. that’s what oaks would say - and in saying so, he would have just exploded his own weird thesis, for in it, prayer to and praise of god is explicitly exemplified, and recommended to be, in familiar language. yeah oaks, less and less you your members are going to be selling out their own family members and friends for you and your 14 buddies in the future, you better get used to it dude. the blue arrow on the article to return to the top."'i therefore consented but asked president heinz if he would feel all right about his file leader, president loren dunn, being present. aren’t the standard works the standard for official church doctrine? i could not, therefore, in good conscience, let them remain unchallenged, when both you and i knew better. moreover, oaks' subsequent statements to the press in ensuing days were far from forthright."children are also victimized by marriages that do not occur," oaks said. sometimes we are silent out of loyalty to those we love. though with great faith in god, he aligned himself with reason, autonomy, and enlightenment, and against the dark forces of dogma and questionable, irresponsible religious authority claims.

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